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Is This Consumer Debt Hardship Initiative a Scam? – Peter

“Dear Steve,

I recently got a letter that makes me wonder if this is something I should do.

1050 Connecticut Ave.
Washington, DC 20036
United states Of America

RE: HR 5140
Consumer Debt Hardship Initiative

They said I was eligible for hardship programs created in conjuntion with the Consumer Debt Hardship Initiative of 2009 and listed one of my debt.

The phone number is 1-877-811-1409.

Peter”

Don’t miss our free Get Out of Debt – “How To” Guide Series on a number of topics, for loads of practical advice, tips, and help to beat back debt. – Click Here

The Answer

 

Dear Peter,

I called the phone number and it was answered by Credit Relief Today, possibly the debt settlement firm of the same name. They could not tell me what they do or what I would “qualify” for without a case number that appears on the letter. All very fishy. There is no reason why a legitimate company can’t tell you what they do when asked nicely.

But I really think they are a collection company that is sending out notices in an attempt to collect a debt. The case number must actually relate to a debt they are trying to collect. This is why they can’t tell me what they do or what I qualify for based on a debt situation.

Let me assure you, there is NO government program that allows you to reduce your debt. The program the letter references has nothing to do with relieving consumer debt. The program is H.R. 5140 and is known as the Recovery Rebates and Economic Stimulus for the American People Act of 2008.

The package includes two major components: rapid tax rebates for American households and tax incentives for businesses to invest, as well as provisions increasing the size of home mortgage loans that the Federal Housing Administration (FHA) can insure and that the quasi-governmental enterprises Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac can purchase. – Source

This program appears to be nothing more than a sales attempt to sell you a debt settlement program or collect a debt under false pretenses.

Once person on the net posted the following information:

…so I called them and was able to get a email address from someone and this allowed me to hack into their not very secure email server. they are a fraud debt collection and skip trace company. They have so many spread sheets they update all the time with so many people personal and SSN its evidence what they are doing. let alone the emails going back and forth between their staff and other office around the country. Which are not very big and most seem to be “boiler room” type collections. They record all calls and are trying to find you and put you into a payment system. In reading a lot of their emails they literally make fun of the “dumbshits” who are paying them and think this is a legitimate Economic Stimulus Act provision. and if they have your SSN they can and will pull your credit for any and all reasons. – Source

I would be most appreciative if you could scan and upload a copy of the letter to me so I could see it. You can upload it here.

If anyone gets a letter from these folks, DO NOT CALL THEM.

Please update me on your progress by posting updates here in the comments section of your question. I’m very interested in how this works out for you.

Big Hug!

Is This Consumer Debt Hardship Initiative a Scam?   Peter
Get Out of Debt Guy – Twitter, G+, Facebook

P.S. Be sure to read ‘The Secret of Surviving Through Difficult Economic Times. What I Learned On My Journey‘.

If you have a credit or debt question you’d like to ask just use the online form. I’m happy to help you totally for free.

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About Steve Rhode

Steve Rhode
Steve Rhode is the Get Out of Debt Guy and has been helping good people with bad debt problems since 1994. You can learn more about Steve, here.
  • Sue Lester

    I am fearful that my daughter is being taken by an attorney in Lake Worth, Florida by the name of Michael Van Cleve who also owns Consumer Hardship Foundation. She needs to get her payments reduced somewhat as she is presently 2 months behind. This lawyer wants her to not pay her house payments and send that money to him to pay his 1200. dollar fee. This sounds too incestous of a relationship for me. I don’t think they are doing no more than what she could do herself. I know there is a company here in Indpls that does not charge anything to do the same things, but I don’t know their name.

  • Ana Gerasimova

    These are just debt consolidation company. They negotiate your settlement with credit card companies, medical debts, and other forms of debt and they basically make a plan to have you debt free in X years. This all sounds fantastic….however…your credit score would initially go down making you ineligible for mortgages, or even something as small as renting a car. If you can pull through the X amount of years you would be debt free and your debt would be shown as paid off, returning you to a good credit score. 

  • Guest

    It says this program allows selet individuals to reduce their adjustable unsecured credit card rates to as low as 0% APR.

    US Lending Instittionsare allowing a limited number of individuals to participate in this Non-Profit 501c-3 creditor sponsored program and you have been selected because of your ood payment history.  We ncourage you to act fast as program guielines onl allow for a limited number of particiants. This program is backed by every major credit card provider in the country, it is not affiliated with Debt Settlement and is specifically designed to keep your Credit Score in excellent standing.  There is No Cost to enroll in this service sponsored by a 501c-3 Non-Profit Agency

    It is important that yo contact us toll-free  1-800-282-3620 within 5 days of receipt of this letter.  The enrollement period begind Sept. 7, 2012.  

    • http://GetOutOfDebt.org Steve Rhode

      It’s a sales pitch. There is no such expiring program.

  • Jperry

    I too, received this letter, and wondered, like many if it was legit. It is sad that companies prey on innocent and vulnerable individuals who need help. Thanks for posting the truth about these letters and what a scam they are!

  • Roy

    Hello Steve – Today, 5/21/2012, I receive the similar letter with no return address, but the warning about opening only by me – the addressee.  I know they get it from court liens, etc. – but, for you there is a number and name inside.  It’s 888-879-9764, Cynthia Owens, Manager – credit relief division.    I am going to join your daily email.  I will save this letter with the case number for a few days.   I will check back here to see if you have instructions for me to help with these scammers,  OR if you find this one is legit.    Thanks, Roy

    • http://GetOutOfDebt.org Steve Rhode

      Thanks.

  • Sandarella22

    I AM SO glad that I looked this up on line.  I received the same letter in the mail yesterday with a CASE #.  The wording is misleading when the “Non-Profit” is included.  No way in HELL am I doing this, especially after reading the many comments here.  The potential of paying off debt is appetizing, but at a cost of a possible charge on my CC of $1200 or more.

    Thank you all for your comments and info.

  • CW

    Hi, I got a similar letter with patently false statements (it lists a debt amount and then states that the entire debt amount is past due and that failure to respond will affect my legal rights).  I called and asked how they got my information and stated that I would be filing a complaint with my state’s AG office since this is an incredible violation of privacy (even though their info is inaccurate).  I’m in the process of filing a consumer complaint. If anyone would like to see the letter, let me know.  Mine was mailed from zip 95813 and the last 7 digits of the number are 629-3322. 

  • sherri

    I have just spent the last few hours with my mother’s credit card companies. She fell for this SCAM…I am so pissed that consumers have no recourse about this. The credit card has been charged $1200 and I don’t een think we can get our mnoey back (although we did dispute it.) All cards have been closed now and when the bank opens in the AM, that will be done too. Apparently there is no such thing as what they claim. It is http://www.nationwidefinancialcenter….

  • Jksent

    Same here Financial Relief Division 1101 pennsylvanis ave NW 6th Floor washington DC 20004 Non-Profit 501C3 Covernment Monitored debt relief agency 1-800-753-9395. are they for real

  • Chrissyquigley

    Thank you, thank you, thank you! I just received the same letter from the Pennsylvania Ave address and I’m so glad I looked into it first. It really does look completely legit, it even says it’s not associated with bankruptcy, debt settlement or debt consolidation, which makes perfect sence if they’re a marketing company. If it sounds too good to be true……

  • Chrissyquigley

    Thank you, thank you, thank you! I just received the same letter from the Pennsylvania Ave address and I’m so glad I looked into it first. It really does look completely legit, it even says it’s not associated with bankruptcy, debt settlement or debt consolidation, which makes perfect sence if they’re a marketing company. If it sounds too good to be true……

    • sherri

      I have just spent the last few hours with my mother’s credit card companies. She fell for this SCAM…I am so pissed that consumers have no recourse about this. The credit card has been charged $1200 and I don’t een think we can get our mnoey back (although we did dispute it.) All cards have been closed now and when the bank opens in the AM, that will be done too. Apparently there is no such thing as what they claim. It is http://www.nationwidefinancialcenter.com

  • Mrs. Inquisitive

    Thanks guys for this important information. I just received a letter from the 1101 Pennsylvania Avenue address, also. I smelled a big rat! Therefore, I got busy.

  • Steve Rhode

    LMAO, So Funny. OMG. Still laughing.

  • Damesianochuco

    I just received one of such letters, and what made me suspicious about the letter was the fact that inside the letter the letter reads like this:
    Debt Management Division
    1101 Pennsylvania Ave NW 6th floor
    Washington, DC 20004
    United State of America
    All Idiots trying to scam people do not know how to spell (United State of America)

  • Damesianochuco

    I just received one of such letters, and what made me suspicious about the letter was the fact that inside the letter the letter reads like this:
    Debt Management Division
    1101 Pennsylvania Ave NW 6th floor
    Washington, DC 20004
    United State of America
    All Idiots trying to scam people do not know how to spell (United State of America)

    • http://GetOutOfDebt.org Steve Rhode

      LMAO, So Funny. OMG. Still laughing.

  • Debbie

    I got one from the 1100 Pennsylvania Ave, 6th floor address too and called before I read any of this. Thank goodness I was skeptical, despite the convincing sales job they did. I gave no information, but they do have my phone number now. I became suspicious when the guy became agitated that I wasn’t interested in including my highest debt. I too have good credit and on time payments. The part about not making payments for 3 months to “become” delinquent bothered me. Based on what I am reading here, many of the people who have commented are very similar to me in credit status. The guy promised that this debt settlement solution would only negatively impact my credit until all of my credit cards are paid off, then my score would go back up.

    Thanks Steve!

  • Danielle

    I am extremely concerned. I called this company and they have my information. Should I be worried about identity theft?

    • http://GetOutOfDebt.org Steve Rhode

      Danielle,

      If you called them from a mailer you received they already had most of it anyway.

      My advice, just check your consolidated credit report credit report every six months to look for any activity you don’t recognize.

      Steve

  • http://InternetExplorer Herb Rebhun

    Steve–I am certainly glad I found your links as I have read all the various comments about the same letter that my wife received and I had a concern about. I sure was Not planning to contact them.

    We are in a debt management program–a Non-Profit one–Consumer Credit Counseling Services (in Ohio)–now renamed–Apprisen. They have been great–they negotiated with about 10 credit card companies (which reduced our interest rates) for us and my money to them is distributed. When I get the Credit card companies normal monthly statement it shows that the money has been properly distributed to them. I Strongly recommend to anyone–that they contact any non-profit Consumer Credit Counseling Services in their area (I had one in Houston years ago and it worked great).

    Steve–any opinion on this type of Service???

    • Tommy Lasorda

      Hi Steve,

      Why don’t you inform them that even these credit counseling programs have an effect on their credit. Each account you have in this program is reflected “as being managed by a financial counseling program.” So even when you pay these debts off it’s going to show that you were unable to pay these bills off on your own.

  • Mary

    I’m getting these mailers for a former tenant of my apartment. I’ve called twice to get him off their mailing list to no avail. It looks like 1101 Pennsylvania Ave NW and 1050 Connecticut Ave. has a business services company in it called regus.com that rents out “virtual offices”, so those addresses are just the scammer’s mail drop. I haven’t figured out the name of the actual company running the scam. Someone from The Consumerist suggested that I file a prohibitory order (http://con.st/10002940) so they stop bugging me, but none of these mailers have return addresses. Mine claims to be from the “Debt Servicing Division” and looks like official paperwork for “Consumer Debt Hardship Initiative 2010.”

    I’ve gotten a lot of mail for this guy over the years. They had a subscription to Gourmet that lasted for quite a while. I called his union because he was still receiving pension papers at my apartment. I have no idea where he is or what he went on to do, but this scam is the one that makes me the maddest. I didn’t want to open these, but once I had three of them sitting on my desk, I started opening and calling. I don’t like knowing that a total stranger had credit card debt and I especially don’t like the idea that someone out there would prey on him.

    My favorite part of the mailer is that it says “Property Owners on Record — certified address” above this guy’s address. He hasn’t lived here two years and was never the owner of this apartment. Good job on the research there, scammers…

    If you guys know any other way I can get off their lists, please let me know.

    • http://GetOutOfDebt.org Steve Rhode

      Mary,

      It appears the mailer actually comes from a company that rents their mailer out to underlying debt settlement companies in order to generate leads. One debt settlement company explained it like this when they were called out on the mailer.

      “I am responding to your recent comments regarding National Credit Exchange and our mailer campaign. It is unfortunate that we let that mailer get by us and make anyone feel misled or deceived by what we sent them. Working with marketing companies has challenges and sometimes things are overlooked or not noticed before it happens. Deceiving the public is not our intent and we will take the appropriate steps from ever letting it happen again. – Source

      I read the information on the prohibitory order but unfortunately it does not look like it applies in this situation since it is for “an addressee who receives a solicited or unsolicited advertisement offering for sale matter that, in the addressee’s sole discretion, is “erotically arousing or sexually provocative,” may, by completing Form 1500, obtain a prohibitory order directing the mailer of the advertisement to refrain from making further mailings to that addressee.” – Source

      Ultimately the address is gather from the company sending out the mailers purchasing a mailing list from one of the credit bureaus. I wonder if the guy might have passed away and thus has no forwarding or updated address.

      Steve

      • Mary

        I wish I could either figure out which list he’s on or where he currently lives. It’s been two years and junk mail is a pet peeve of mine so I’m pretty vigilant about getting off of lists, but there are a handful of companies that continue to send him mail. At least it’s not a bill!

        >prohibitory order

        According to several junk mail sites and that link on theconsumerist.com, you can file a prohibitory order for anything that you personally regard as “offensive” since offensive is always in the eye of the beholder. While the law was written to prevent little old ladies from getting porn in the mail, anyone can use it to prevent any specific person or group from sending them mail that they don’t want, provided that their post office agrees that the mailings are worth blocking. I’ve never done it, but I’m pretty tempted. The fines are pretty high for companies that continue to send mailings after a prohibitory order.

  • Bruce

    I also gave my SSN and DOB, but no other information. Any suggestions on how to protect myself?

  • http://isthisconsumerdebthardshipascam? Andria

    Steve,
    I like a fool, called the number and gave information, and even a copy of a cancelled check, before doing any research. I am currently waiting for an e-mail from them about signing something so they can deduct a payment from my account. Now that I’ve read so much about them I will not be “joining” their program. Is there anything I can do about the cancelled check I sent with my banking info ?

    • http://GetOutOfDebt.org Steve Rhode

      Talk to your bank and you might want to change your account number with the bank to block any unwanted debit.

      Steve

  • Mr. Houston

    What I have been told is that these companies Guarantee Nothing! They divert the collection agencies and creditor accounts to themselves, so that you do not receive the collection calls and or collection notices to include court ordered appearance notifications when the creditor decides to sue, so the creditor gets a default judgment! Which almost guarantees the creditor repayment with tax intercepts and wage garnishments. When the consumer contacts the Debt Relief Company they say sorry we were not able to help you, oh and there is no refund. Rumor has it that they receive a kickback from the financial creditor, for helping them get that default judgment against you!

  • LeAnn Lyewski

    5/24/10
    I recently rec’d official looking information from Debt Servicing Division, 1101 Penn Ave NW, Wash DC 20004, R/t credit card debt resolution, through ECONOMIC STIMULUS ACT of 2009. The title on the document was CONSUMER DEBY HARDSHIP INITIATIVE-BALANCE REDUCTION. a ID number was included. On 5/18/2010, I called the TF number (800 650 9181). after the automated menu, I was quickly connected to Bobby Walker. I told him I was inquiring about credit card debt resolution, I gave him the ID number from the document. I also gave him my SS#, as he said he would send me a copy of my credit report, I asked him, before giving the SS#, if this was a secure site. He said YES. He asked for my DOB. He said I could reach him at any time (at the TF number x109).
    He asked me if I was ‘late’ on any of my payments, I told him, ‘at the present-no, but I am not employed, and have had some unanticipated expenses, including a brief hospitalization without health insurance’. Like so many MI residents, employment of any kind has been difficult to find. He went on to explain the program he was representing: I would have to let my credit card accounts go delinquent for 2 mo. He said,when the phone calls began, I would be able to give the creditor a phone number to call, and I would recieve a script of what to tell them. Or I could just not answer the phone. In the mean time, I would send an amount of money to the group he represents, to be placed in an escrow account, to which I would always have access. His group would contact the credit card companies, and negotiate an amount agreeable to them and me. I would be called r/t that negotiation, and when the amount in the escrow acct reached that amount, the credit card company would be paid from the escrow account, and I would recieve a PIF notice. In this way, my creditors would be paid off, one at a time. There would be no ‘blot’ on my credit report. He would need all my acount numbers, as well as my banking details. In that initial conversation, he said that he had other things to do, and because I was hesitant, he would call me a few days later. He sent an E mail message and credit report. on 5/20/2010, he called me back. I told him that my caller ID had registered the call came from California 916 265 1868. His voice seemed surprised, but he quickly moved on to other things. I was still hesitant, and he gave me the number of a Better Business Bureau in CA, telling me that their rating was B-, that few organizations have perfect ratings. He told me that their rating was better than Disney! I told him that I did not have all the information he requested, and he agreed to call me back again on 5/24. I am extremely grateful that I happened to investigate your site. The adage: IF SOMETHING SEEMS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE…….seems appropriate here!

  • http://letter Don

    I received the letter from 1101 Pennsylvania Ave NW 6th Floor etc. My letter stated on it National Debt Relief Stimulus Plan 2010. If they are advertising this on their letter is this illegal as they are not in conjunction or sanctioned with this plan. I did wonder as from above, the stimulus Act is 2009 not 2010, so is this how they are getting past being fraudulent? And yes I thought the letter was too good to be true when reading. The scary thing is on the letter, they had printed pretty close to the amount of my unsecured debt!

    • http://GetOutOfDebt.org Steve Rhode

      Don,

      They got it by accessing your credit report.

      Steve

      • http://yahoo susan

        isnt that illegal? to access ones credit without permission? I got same letter (National Debt Relief Stimulus Plan 2009)

      • http://GetOutOfDebt.org Steve Rhode

        Susan,

        There is some disagreement if the companies had a permissible business purpose to pull such detailed information and there has been at least one lawsuit over it.

        I think the allegation was that Experian sold the records as part of something they routinely do for marketing information. In thos case however they sold access to complete credit reports and that does seem very problematic.

        Steve

  • http://[email protected] Jody

    I got the same kind of letter. Must be a scam.

    Debt Resolution Division
    1101 Pennsylvania Ave NW 6th Floor
    Washington DC 20004

    RE: Economic Stimulus Act of 2009
    800-650-9181

    case number is required to take part

    • Pele G

      I got the same letter with the same 800 650-9181 number re: Economic Stimulus Act of 2009. I’m so glad I researched this further. I almost called them.

  • Mary

    I opened a one page letter that looked quite offical on debt elimination etc. It was exactly what everyone else discribed on this site. Wisdom has taught me that if is sounds too good to be true don’t buy into it. I sure am glad I googled this site and found out the truth before I called the number on the page. Thank you for your information.

  • TJ

    Just received an apparent version 2.0 of this today: no fine print identifying the actual business. They went to great lengths to make it appear government sponsored, down to the single page perforated edges mailer. I came to this page randomly and saw Steve had requested a scan of the letter, so I’ve obliged. Anyone feel free to spread it around/submit it to agencies/BBB, whatever.

    Side 1: http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/8105/nationaldebtreliefstimu.jpg
    Side 2: http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/8105/nationaldebtreliefstimu.jpg

    • Jody

      Mine looks different and actually looks like tax return on the envelope with statue of liberty.

  • renee

    i have received this letter as well. the company, Credit Relief Today is listed on the BBB with an A rating. doesn’t this mean something good? if we can’t trust the BBB, then who CAN we trust? am i supposed to trust you STeve? i need help on this…i’m in a desperate financial situation, and the debt relief seems like my only option. advice??? comments???

    • http://GetOutOfDebt.org Steve Rhode

      Renee,

      It appears that the reason Credit Relief Today has an A rating is because they are inappropriately identified by the BBB as an organization in the business of “Sales and Marketing of Financial Services.” Credit Relief Today, by their own admission isn’t a service provider, they are a middleman.

      “We are a sales and marketing company. Our staff will ask you for information about the total amount of your credit card debt and any other unsecured debt you may have.

      If you meet the required minimum amount of debt and are employed, we will refer you to an independent processing company that will work with you to set up a plan to eliminate your debt.”

      Who can you trust, my vote is to not shift your trust to someone else, including me, but to empower yourself with knowledge by talking to a local bankruptcy attorney, credit counseling group and a direct provider of debt settlement services. Talk to each of them with an open mind and don’t judge their services in advance. Don’t rule out things like bankruptcy until you know what bankruptcy would mean for you in your situation.

      After you do your homework, come on back and let me know what you discovered.

      My trust is in you.

      Steve

      • Bob

        Steve,

        Nicely said, can you elaborate on what to look for and who would be considered a good “credit counseling group”

      • http://GetOutOfDebt.org Steve Rhode

        Bob,

        A good credit counseling agency is one that does not lie or misrepresent their services, provides good customer service, does not over-promise and does not under-deliver. A good agency will be responsive to active clients, account for funds paid, promptly pay creditors and deal with any creditor questions or issues that may arise.

        Steve

    • Shadosaber04

      I was with 2 BBB credited companies, both had A+ ratings , both were scams. lost over $2 K, expensive lesson . they take their fees up front and you can’t get that back. report them to BBB, seems to help a little in recovery, also, file complaint with State attorney General.

  • http://Website Josh

    I got the same letter… very official looking. Its scary to know its not legit. Mine specifically states that it is part of the Economic Stimulus Act of 2009 and it is not associated with bankruptcy, credit counseling, or debt consolidation. The address is 1101 Pennsylvania Ave NW 6th Floor Washington DC 20004 and the phone number is 877-294-1025 or 877-384-8453(spanish).

  • Elissa B.

    I received this letter and actually called because it seemed so official. Now I’m worried because I let them pull my credit report! Anyone have any idea what they might do with my and my husband’s SSNs?

    • http://GetOutOfDebt.org Steve Rhode

      Elissa,

      Not really, except use it to pull your report to find out who you really owed. My suggestion, get a copy of your consolidated credit report and signup for some credit report monitoring service to let you know if any new accounts appear.

      Steve

  • Steve

    I’ve received numerous snail-mail, “Debt Initiative” letters, each of them saying they’re in Washington, DC, and each stating how I can be out of debt in as little as 48 months. Oh if only it were true!!

  • Renee

    I also received a letter for the same Consumer Debt Hardship Iniiative, but the address was not the same. Mine was 1101 Pennsylvania Ave NW 6th Floor Washington DC 20004.

    • Andrea

      I received this same letter from the Pennsylvania Ave, DC address. So many scams out there.

      • Marie

        I got the same letter from DC20004 that’s why I am doing my research, about to place it where it belongs…in the trash can. Thanks guys.

    • Kathy Vispi

      I received a letter with the 1101 Pennsylvania Ave address, glad I looked here to see that what I thought was correct, this is a scam

      • Mrs. Inquisitive

        Thanks guys for this important information. I just received a letter from the 1101 Pennsylvania Avenue address, also. I smelled a big rat! Therefore, I got busy.

    • Sharon

      I just received the same notice from the Pennsylvania Ave – 6th floor address so apparently there is a mass mailing going out. At first I thought it was a check of some kind. I do have a credit card with a high balance (so someone is pulling mass credit reports looking for large revolving consumer account balances) but all of my bills are paid and on time so I believe that this location may be fishing for business.
      FYI – I first tried the Better Business Bureau and got nowhere fast !!
      I am so very glad I stumbled on this article (THANKS STEVE !!) by googling the full address and the very official looking ‘letter’ is now secured (in the garbage) and I am secure in the fact that I at the very least cost them wasted postage fees. Mail away fools, I now know to ignore it.

      • Jksent

        Same here Financial Relief Division 1101 pennsylvanis ave NW 6th Floor washington DC 20004 Non-Profit 501C3 Covernment Monitored debt relief agency 1-800-753-9395. are they for real

    • Jeannine

      I received a letter from American Debt Relief Initiative with address: 2776 S Arlington Mill Drive 245, Arlington, VA 22206 United States of America 1-888-229-3508 saying I may be eligible for debt reliefe up to $14,000. I never called them.

      • Rachel

        I got one with the 2776 S Arlington Mill Address….I knew it was not Government related but….it also is a scam or not something that can help with debt? My bills are paid on time but in this economy some debt relief would be helpful! Thanks for your comment!!

    • Lora

      I also received this letter from 1101 Pennsylvania Avenue. Before I dropped it in the waste basket, thought I would “google” NDRSP 2010). The thing is; our credit rating is pretty good, as we haven’t had any late payments on credit cards. Stopped using the cards 2-1/2 years ago, and am paying them off. Another 2-1/2 years will do it. My letter included a “check” with a Case # for $4,937.00; STRANGE! It’s now in the waste basket where it belongs.

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