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Is the Living Free and Clear Program Offered by TJ Marrs and Asset Solutions a Scam?

Recently someone came to the site and posted a comment (see comment from Dee) that lead me to the video to the right and that took me to the Living Free and Clear program by TJ Marrs (Theron-Jay Marrs). At first glance I saw what I thought were many of the same pitches I saw from Dave Burke and The Real Talk Network. So I thought I’d take a closer look at what the site and TJ Marrs are selling for debt relief help.

After looking at the program I had a number of issues. In my opinion a red flag was raised when I saw that the course for sale on the Living Free and Clear site (LivingFreeandClear.com) was $3,000 to $5,000. That is a lot of money for people to pay for debt relief services. But I suppose it is the same reaction that many people have. After all, TJ Marrs even says in his own video, “Your local attorney or real estate agent is going to tell you this is a scam.” But he asserts that if you keep studying the material and but the program it will all make sense.

Who is Living Free and Clear?

The Living Free and Clear services are actually offered by Theron-Jay Marrs though his company Asset Solutions 2100 LLC, 237 NE Chkalov Dr. STE 117 Vancouver, WA 98684. Asset Solutions, LLC was incorporated on August 3, 1999 and the members are Theron Marrs and Yolanda Marrs. – Source

Who is TJ Marrs

I’ll have to defer to the bio on his own site that says:

Over the past 17 years T.J. Marrs has participated in over 500 real estate transactions combined as a licensed Real Estate Agent, Oregon & Washington licensed Mortgage Broker & Mortgage Banker, and real estate investor.

T.J. has also held professional certifications in securities, insurance, and is a decorated U.S. Naval Intelligence Officer serving during the Iran-Iraq War and cold war periods. Since surviving a near fatal multiple stabbing attack in a Church parking lot, while parking a car to attend midnight Christmas mass in 1998, T.J. has dedicated his life to helping others overcome their fears and obstacles, and changing their lives.

T. J. has authored two books and multiple courses on real estate investing and finance, and has developed one of the most successful coaching systems in America. He currently serves as Chairman of Northwest Real Estate Investors Association, one of the most successful associations in the country. He now spends his time dedicated to his real estate investments, speaking internationally, and helping his students succeed in their businesses. He is the select author for one of the internet’s top web sites receiving over 2 million hits per month.

T.J. has twice been interviewed by the Wall Street Journal and CNBC’s Power Lunch. He has also contributed to the new books “The Idiots Guide to Foreclosure Investing”. His newest Foreclosure Profit Machine – Ethical Foreclosure Investing Strategies, is available at www.amazon.com.

His latest project includes his advanced mortgage acceleration strategies, with the goal to make One Million homeowners debt free, in the next 3 to 9 years. – Source


Apparently TJ Marrs is an Experienced Web Marketer.

TJ also has a site called the Creative Wealth Builder Club (source) where he promises “With just 3 steps I can make you financially independent for life.” He also has some online interview questions you can read.

The Current Living Free and Clear Program

Here is an introductory audio presentation about the current program by TJ Marrs.

I’ll teach you a little bit about your birth certificate. And how your birth certificate is turned into a commodity and used without your permission. And how to take that back where you control it.
- Quote from intro audio above.

The current Living Free and Clear program seems to be about how to “be completely debt free after settlement or collection, using powerful-automatic “Administrative Processes.” – Source. But in my opinion it seems best to describe the program as a coaching, education, foreclosure avoidance, stop foreclosure, ditch your mortgage, income opportunity program.

In watching the video below about the current Living Free and Clear program I listened to Theron-Jay talk about progressivism and marxism and about how proud he was that he had his picture taken with some FOX television personality. He even talks about countries in Europe that will lose their sovereignty because of their debt.

[flashvideo file=/wp-content/uploads/LFC.flv /] Overview Explanation Video About Current Program. One long hour.

Marrs describes his company and services not as a mortgage elimination or stop foreclosure company. He says “We are not a stop foreclosure or mortgage elimination company. We are an education company.” But there is a slide in the presentation that talks about how the program works to stop foreclosure.

And whatever the program is being sold the statement in the video that as of the video, no successful cases had been completed since “We only launched this last year so it’s too early for completed cases.”

Is the Living Free and Clear Program Offered by TJ Marrs and Asset Solutions a Scam?

Maybe it’s just me but I also get a bit worried when I see programs that have an ACT FAST feel to them but have a hard “no refund” policy. And another flag for me is the promotion of this as an income opportunity. The affiliate section of the site says:

With just a few referrals, your own mortgage settlement program membership can be effectively net zero cost.

You can create a serious residual part time income with our simple 2 level affiliate program. It is free to be an affiliate. 2 to 3 referral sales a week = @ $1500 to $7491 per week – part time (depending on packages chosen).

Membership in our LFC Flex Line Membership is highly recommended so you are equipped to deliver support to your team and clients.

For example, with our Mortgage Settlement Program you can earn 25% direct commissions and 15% overrides on other affiliates who join you. – Source

The Living Free and Clear Program Today Does Not Appear to Be What It Once Was

I have to admit, I’m confused what the Living Free and Clear program actually is since at one time the program operated under the same name was a pay your mortgage off early program using something like the HELOC Australian mortgage reduction scheme.

He also is or did promote a different mortgage elimination program called the Flex Line Mortgage Elimination Strategy.

With this powerful system we trademarked, we teach people how to reduce the cost of their mortgage while living on the same monthly cash flow, while also living the same lifestyle and owning the same items and luxuries they are used to. The risk is low because you may be able to do it with your current fixed rate mortgage, or at least set yourself up with a fixed rate mortgage for about 90% of the outstanding balance, thus virtually eliminating variable rate risk. A small 2nd mortgage or line of credit ma make up about 10% of your entire balance, which is on a variable rate (all lines of credit are variable), while the other 90% or your mortgage is fixed. Even the small line of credit went very high in rate, it has very little effect on the result.

This takes very little sacrifice and once established is about as simple as making deposits and writing checks, but with a slightly different plan as to what goes where and when. It is very easy to establish and maintain. In our strategy we teach people to establish the proper type of mortgage, a very unique form of a mortgage in fact, which allow an individual to manage their cash flow just like a bank account, except that all of your monthly cash gets applied to your mortgage balance before you pay all the rest of your bills. The result is a lower “average daily balance” on your mortgage over time. Yet you have full flexibility to spend out of this account as needed for everyday expenses, just like a bank account. It does take some powerful software to set up, project results and track changes as you go however. But the user experience is simple.

By the way with a typical $200,000 mortgage, in as little as 7 years, you could actually be free and clear, while living in the same house, and having the same spend-able after debt cash to live on. (Results will vary).

It is similar to earning 6% to 8% on your money in a savings account over time, versus 1% to 3%. It is also similar to reducing a current 7% mortgage to about 2%, effective rate without refinancing. These numbers may seem small but when applied properly it can easily reduce a mortgage payoff to about one third the average payout time. Factors such as excess cash flow, extra income, and simply following the plan are keys to success. A power yet simple to use software program helps set up the plan so that one can determine their own strategy and better stick to it.

Let’s face it if one could knock 20 years off a 30 year mortgage and their payment is $1,500 a month, that equals 240 payments times $1,500 = $360,000 in payments saved. That’s real money that could be used for other investments, college funding, other debt elimination, or simply peace of mind. All while living the exact same lifestyle.

On investor properties, keep in mind, it works slightly differently, but investors report an average $50,000 projected savings per property, with our advanced strategy.

That is equivalent to a $50,000 additional profit per property! – Source

I did find this online study guide to the Living Free and Clear program from 2008 and an eBook describing the Living Free and Clear program as “The Living Free and Clear™ system is a cutting edge, revolutionary way to REDUCE your mortgage payoff by as much as 100 to 200 payments, thus saving the COST of all those unnecessary payments(all without sacrificing new money out of your monthly budget.” – Source

One online poster tried to sum up with the Living Free and Clear program was as of 2006. Here is what they said:

Living Free And Clear Program Itself works well, reverse compound interest is true, and in fact if you have as little as $250 of extra un-used cash each month, then the system CAN pay off a mortgage in as little as 10 years depending on your other debts, and expenses, and yes you don’t have to spend more money . . . Now the Problem . . .

TJ Marrs himself is the problem, he changes the price so often and the content, and is in fact such a good salesman that he can convince people to drop $1000, $2000 or more money they cant afford anyway, on a “system” that will take you 5 minutes to learn . . .

Here is TJ’s System for free! Living Free and Clear for FREE

Here it is in a nutshell.

What you need:
A HELOC (home equity line of credit) or Stand Alone Line of Credit (that allows direct deposit) equal to 3X your monthly income. (Example, i make $5,000 a month after taxes, my Line of Credit is $15,000)

Step #1
Take the $15,000 from the Line of Credit and Write a Check to your mortgage company, in the memo line make sure and write “apply to principle only”. By law they have to comply and forward towards principle. (now notice you just flat out paid $15,000 towards your mortgage you can even borrow back if you ever need it)

Step #2
Inform your employer or deposit your paycheck NOT in your checking but in this new Flexible line of credit or Heloc.

Step #3
Use 2-3 credit cards for ALL your expenses.

Step #4
Keep the money deposited into your Line of Credit or HELOC as long as possible, IE pay your Mortgage Bill, Credit Cards out of that line of credit on the last possible day. Using your credit cards for expenses will create about 20-25 extra days of your deposit staying in the mortgage HELOC or line of credit account. Pay in full the amount charged that month from that account.

Step #5
Watch what happens, Give it six months, you have nothing to lose, you spent $15,000 in equity on mortgage, you can always get it back. Notice that if you have $250+ extra un-used cash, interest in the HELOC or Line of Credit will start to reverse! There will be a SURPLUS of CASH by the end of six months! that $15,000 will pay itself OFF! and in 6-14 months the entire $15,000 is back, write another check towards the first mortgage again, now $30,000 paid off.

Step #6
In 5-12 years be mortgage free. See you don’t need some fancy software, or some long winded tapes and books, you just need action and results.

Save your Money, Living Free and Clear is A Rip Off! I have seen similar programs for $3000 or more and you get much better service and much better software.

TJ Marrs and Living Free and Clear Programs prices change all the time from $1 to $500 to $700 to $1200 you think he would make up his mind by now, if you want to buy his products they should have a streaming chart on his website . . . funny, just like stocks you could buy his product low and sell it high.

www.livingfreeandclear.com is a SCAM! Price and Description changes too much for my taste. – Source

But as you will see below the current incarnation, in my opinion, is an entirely different program than what was described above. Somewhere along the way, things changed.

Current Living Free and Clear Client Contract

When purchasing the Living Free and Clear services you are presented with the option to pay via PayPal on the site.

Is the Living Free and Clear Program Offered by TJ Marrs and Asset Solutions a Scam?

When paying you are asked to agree to the terms of the contract which is provided separately.

Course Agreement

Of particular concern to me was the non-refundable statements in this contract. “This agreement is not cancelable for any reason after 72 hours of delivering proprietary training materials by email.

CLIENT waives any right to cancel after that or exercise credit card charge backs or return of orders. CLIENT further agrees that a charge back effectively forms an agreement to pay a penalty fee of $200 for processing of charge backs. – Source

In addition, whatever materials are sold are on an all sales are finial basis. in my opinion this is a tragic setup for unhappy people who may sign the agreement and then latter have buyer’s remorse and want out. I think companies providing debt relief services should provide a demonstrable pro-rata refund policy based on the actual services used.

So it appears what the consumer is paying $3,000 to $5,000 for is “consulting and training” and “coaching” as provided by Asset Solutions. The course materials are described as “electronically delivered course materials including manuals, contracts, electronic files, etc.” – Source

Course Agreement The undersigned (“Client’) agrees to undertake Consulting and Training with Asset Solutions 2100, LLC, which includes course materials and support as described below.

  1. Consultation. CLIENT understands that coaching will be provided by ASSET SOLUTIONS 2100, LLC (hereinafter “CONSULTANT”). CONSULTANT will provide you with the agreed currently available downloadable books, audios, and written materials in exchange for payment made by CLIENT. Consideration of one dollar ($1) is included in list price, under which CONSULTANT agrees to provide course support and update information to CLIENT with his/her mortgage settlement process. ______
  2. Course Materials. CLIENT will receive CONSULTANT’S certain electronically delivered course materials including manuals, contracts, electronic files, etc.. This material shall be kept in strictest of confidence by CLIENT, and shall not be reproduced or copied or given to sources, other than parties to transactions involved as necessary. These materials are licensed for the private use of the CLIENT only and are not to be shared with any other parties, except those parties with whom the CLIENT may share a beneficial interest in a property with. Sources, methods, documents, and contacts revealed shall not be disclosed to anyone without specific written consent of consultant, unless being given to potential interested parties to a transaction where the CONSULTANT is financially compensated ____.
  3. Method of Communication. CLIENT will receive limited course training support by group class training sessions, then by support ticket system, then by email, and then by scheduled phone consultation – but only after attempting the previous methods first (typically scheduled 9am-5pm Mon-Fri Pacific Time). CLIENT understands that if CONSULTANT or related staff is unavailable or out of his office CONSULTANT may not be able to immediately personally respond to all calls, faxes or e-mail inquiries by CLIENT, but CONSULTANT or his staff, will make every effort to respond to all questions as soon as reasonably possible. ______
  4. No Guarantee of Results and Guarantees. CLIENT understands that CONSULTANT assures the company efforts, but does not guarantee CLIENT’s efforts and subsequent results. CLIENT understands that in order to make the trained transactions happen he/she must work diligently to actively pursue required step to achieve success. Signing this agreement acknowledges that CLIENT is aware of the work involved in proceeding with their mortgage correction plan, and that certain actions by other parties are not predictable, although historically effectively dealt with the general processes. Once original training materials are delivered and reviewed for 3 calendar days, CLIENT waives any right to cancel after that or exercise credit card charge backs or return of orders. CLIENT further agrees that a charge back effectively forms an agreement to pay a penalty fee of $200 for processing of charge backs. Course material sales are final, except where specifically indicated. ______
  5. Joint Venture. In the event that CLIENT and CONSULTANT (or any entity affiliated with), enter into a joint venture on a property in exchange for expanded individual support, such as document preparation, negotiation, personal coaching or document evaluation, and/or transaction support, proceeds shall be split according to the agreement on each individual transaction. Said proceeds shall become payable in full with U.S. Federal Reserve Notes (US Dollars) to CONSULTANT within 45 days of achieving a final settlement or clearing of liens from title. _______
  6. No Legal or Accounting Representation. CONSULTANT holds no legal or accounting licenses and will be providing instruction, education, and coaching on the use of course materials only. CONSULTANT nor it’s REPRESENTATIVES or affiliates, are the legal agent of client and are not to be considered rendering legal or accounting advice. If CLIENT requires a licensed realtor, legal advice, tax or accounting advice, CLIENT agrees to retain such professional counsel as they see fit. All documentation used should be reviewed by appropriate legal counsel before final use. Therefore, CONSULTANT shall be held harmless from ANY legal or accounting problems which may result from CLIENT’s use of course materials, forms, involvement in any transaction, for actions or services of 3rd party sources referred, or from techniques taught by CONSULTANT or CONSULTANT representatives. CONSULTANT agrees to keep all discussions between CONSULTANT and CLIENT in the strictest confidence. ______
  7. Entire Agreement. As written, this Agreement constitutes the entire agreement between the CLIENT and CONSULTANT. They have made no further promises of any kind to one another, nor have they reached any other understandings, written or verbal. This agreement applies only to matters regarding real estate or mortgage consulting. _______
  8. Exceptions: CLIENT may refer other clients to CONSULTANT for a referral fee of (see published affiliate schedule and separate enrollment required to be in effect). ______
  9. Return policy: Due to proprietary nature of most material sold, all sales are final, unless otherwise specifically offered in writing. If applicable, return are subject to a 15% restocking and merchant processing fee and do not include shipping paid. Rebate
    programs are not to be considered a refund. Rebates are only redeemable as specified in the offer. If transaction profits are not shared by CLIENT as agreed, any rebate terms offered are null and void. _______

  10. Payment plan agreement. Entry into this agreement constitutes a promissory note executed by both parties for payments due, to pay the agreed terms of the offer accepted, and may be secured by a “performance lien” against any CLIENT real property if payments agreed to are not paid as agreed. ONLY THE CURRENT PAYMENT PLANS OFFERRED ON THE WEB SITE WILL BE GRANTED ______

THIS AGREMENT MAY BE AMMENDED BY CONSULTANT. IN SUCH CASES, THE CLIENT SHALL BE GIVEN 72 HOURS TO DISAGREE WHEN NOTIFIED BY EMAIL OR FAX TRANSSMISSION, OR THEREFORE AUTOMATICALLY CONSENT TO THE PUBLISHED AMMENDMENDS.

Course and Program Options

PRICES AND TERMS SUBJECT TO CHANGE

Referring affiliate ___________________________________________________ (Must be a pre-registered affiliate in our system to apply – self generated or “non arms length” affiliate relationships are not allowed to earn commissions, such as person in same household).

_____OPTION 1 – Mortgage Cancellation Course Plan + Multiple Transactions + Real Estate Course/Coaching

Includes web delivered course materials; processing resources, e-books, videos, audios material, forms and weekly Q&A calls. Personal small group coaching is available first by email, then by phone by appointment. A one half hour monthly one on one personal coaching session is also included. This option also includes our Real Estate Course Kit and assistance on multiple property mortgages. Additional real estate investment coaching is available for a JV fee equal to 50% of the net profit from first transaction CLIENT wishes to receive real estate coaching on.

OPTIONAL: Online automated document set up fee is separately billed by separate company per set of documents ordered, if requested. Initial set of documents on one mortgage is included in this price below. Additional mortgage or doc prep will be billed per mortgage case requested. 3rd party Notary Services and mailing fees are not included in price. CURRENT PRICE: $4995.00 and you get to deduct that original fee from the equity share payout as a “rebate” if applicable** (price subject to change)

_____OPTION 2 – Mortgage Cancellation Course ONLY – Single transaction
Includes online course materials; processing resources, e-books, videos, audios material, forms and weekly Q&A calls. Personal small group coaching is available first by email, then by phone by appointment. A one half hour monthly one on one personal coaching session is also included. OPTIONAL: Online automated document set up fee is separately billed by separate company per set of documents ordered from them, if requested. Your initial set of documents on one mortgage is inc luded in this price below. Additional mortgage or doc prep will be billed per mortgage case requested. 3rd party Notary Services and mailing fees are not included in price. CURRENT PRICE: $2,995.00 (price subject to change)

NOTE ON REBATE, PAYMENTS OR OTHER FORMS OF PAYMENT: Payment plans will result in a 10% increase in overall tuition fees, divided by the number of agreed payments. TWO credit cards required for payment options, and are non cancelable. 5% discount for “cashier check” or “Cash Deposit” payments paid in full (wires excluded). Applicable sales taxes must be included in the initial payment.

This agreement is not cancelable for any reason after 72 hours of delivering proprietary training materials by email.

CLEARLY Print client(s) ______________________________ Sign x________________________ __________, 20___ Shipping address_______________________________________________________________________ City_________________________________________________________ State____ Zip__________ ________________________ ______________________ _____________________
Daytime telephone number Cell # Fax# Email ________________________________@_______________________________ (for delivery of account details)

Fax this entire agreement to: 360-397-0159, with credit card information, then mail funds to: Asset Solutions 2100, LLC 237 NE Chkalov Dr. STE 117 Vancouver, WA 98684

(Accepted by Asset Solutions 2100, LLC officer X__________________________________ )
Source

Any Clarification is Welcome

If you have some feedback or clarification you would like to add to help people better understand the Living Free and Clear program by Asset Solutions 2100 and T.J. Marrs, please post your comments below.

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About Steve Rhode

Steve Rhode
Steve Rhode is the Get Out of Debt Guy and has been helping good people with bad debt problems since 1994. You can learn more about Steve, here.
  • guardian

    why are YOU charging those who are willing to stand along-side YOU in this battle against the CORRUPT ones? If YOU are for real…then YOU would’nt ask me to do such a thing…

  • More info needed

    This is unfortunate…please keep me informed on this case if you don’t mind. I was so close to enrolling in his program but because I couldn’t any of my questions answered via phone or online webinar I put it on hold. Wishing you and your family/friends the best.

  • More info needed

    I too have been reading up on this information for the past year. One of the snags I’ve run into when I’ve been able to speak to someone is this veil of ambiguity or what seems like fear to speak. I will check into the sites you’ve listed in your post and see where it lead.

  • Steve Rhode

    Oh no, that’s not good news at all. Are you concerned you’ll get sucked into the criminal case?

  • guest

    They don’t always pay out the commissions like they say. I’m an affiliate and signed up a lady who signed up a family which invested the 5k to get started. I’m still waiting for my commission of $750 which they keep telling me they are working on it. Its been 7 months now and I’m still not getting anywhere with them.
    They family who bought the program followed TJs system and is facing criminal charges now for filing TJs forms in the county recorders office as they were instructed by TJ in his phase 2 steps. I’m now hearing of others who are also facing the same issues in court and are looking at a jail sentence.

  • guest

    They don’t always pay out the commissions like they say. I’m an affiliate and signed up a lady who signed up a family which invested the 5k to get started. I’m still waiting for my commission of $750 which they keep telling me they are working on it. Its been 7 months now and I’m still not getting anywhere with them.
    They family who bought the program followed TJs system and is facing criminal charges now for filing TJs forms in the county recorders office as they were instructed by TJ in his phase 2 steps. I’m now hearing of others who are also facing the same issues in court and are looking at a jail sentence.

    • http://GetOutOfDebt.org Steve Rhode

      Oh no, that’s not good news at all. Are you concerned you’ll get sucked into the criminal case?

    • More info needed

      This is unfortunate…please keep me informed on this case if you don’t mind. I was so close to enrolling in his program but because I couldn’t any of my questions answered via phone or online webinar I put it on hold. Wishing you and your family/friends the best.

  • Fiat Currency

    Steve I was glad to find your criticism of the Living Free and Clear program and have no particular love for T.J. Marrs. Your analysis of his program(s) seems to make some sense. However I must say you are wrong about the Sovereign / Commercial Redemption position having no legs. The individuals who fail at some stage of this process have been shown to be moving too fast for their own good and not really knowing what they are doing, which is something the masters of the process always warn their students about. I am not affiliated with Living Free and Clear or any of the individuals I mention below, I’m just a patriotic American who is tired of being constantly defrauded by the system who lives paycheck to paycheck.

    Sovereignty is complicated and time consuming primarily because it requires full responsibility on the part of the individual adopting this philosophy and taking this action. As Michael Badnarik, (http://www.constitutionpreservation.org/) Libertarian candidate for US President in 2004 has said, “Freedom isn’t for everyone. It is a lot of work.” Patriotic masters like Winston Shrout (http://www.winstonshroutsolutionsincommerce.com/) and Sam Davis (http://www.statusisfreedom.com/) have lived these principals for years and have shown how it is done through their own work through processes using the UCC-1, Accepted for Value, 1099 OID, etc. This by default shows that the birth certificate is being fraudulently used by the US Gov, Inc. as they state, but this is only a small part of the puzzle. Can you provide any empirical data that this is false? Probably not since you didn’t bother to in your above statement, you just expect us to believe you and parrot some administrative info from Oregon that has nothing to do with the real issue.

    There are other processes as well which are very effective such as Demands for Legal Evidence, Title 42 and the Law of Voids which allow an individual to take back their freedom from the fraudulent system without having to “become sovereign”. I’ve eliminated $40,000+ in illegal demands for payment from large banks / 3rd party debt collectors with nothing more than 30 pages of Demands for Legal Evidence and legal exhibits. Everyone is looking for the magic bullet that will solve everything overnight. I’ve studied for 5+ years to get to the modest understanding I currently have. So if someone has that outlook they should just stay in the slave system. These philosophy and procedures are not a get out of debt quick scheme, a method for flipping homes to make a quick buck, etc. It is for those who want to reclaim their God given power as a sovereign being.

    Thanks for the info on LFC, but it sounds like to me that you are either a mind controlled tool of the fraudulent system or you are a traitorous cog in the disinformation machine which is destroying America and the world.

    • More info needed

      I too have been reading up on this information for the past year. One of the snags I’ve run into when I’ve been able to speak to someone is this veil of ambiguity or what seems like fear to speak. I will check into the sites you’ve listed in your post and see where it lead.

  • Ally@Open Coffee Shop

    The only problem with that theory “give it for free”….is that people don’t respect what they get for free ( to them it has no value)….I see this all the time in my profession.

    There is definitely work involved in this program and the success is entirely dependent on the “work” being completed….most people would fail because they are too lazy to file the paperwork etc. Those that have money invested are going to do what it takes to see this through and get their house free and clear.

    After talking to the financial guy of a Washington think tank I am going to test this out with an investment property of mine!

    • Brian H

      Yes, you are correct. Instead of FREE, then half upfront, and the other half upon successful completion, with no recourse if buyer drops the ball and fails to complete all requisite steps outlined in the program. But then, after 72 hours there is NO REFUND anyways. Hmmm……

      • BRIAN

        PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF IT WORKS- I have done TJ Mars courses in the past they always seems legit. I still use his documents for me rentals now. I was able to use his program to get shortsales discounted but was never able to land the money to buy the discounted property. Let me know if you get the loan discounted please.

  • Brian Hazzard

    It would seem to me, that IF this strategy truly worked, then I would think that one could utilize these methods, and IF it worked, at THAT TIME we should PAY for this course, only after seeing the results! Because THEN what he is portraying would be the truth, in the essence! If he were that interested in helping out his fellow man, or woman, then a pure heart would lead him to do this, instead of taking money upfront, and then refusing to refund after 72 hours! What better way to stand behind your product than to say, “use it, and if it works for you, share your experience with me, and THEN pay for it!” That would generate ALOT more customers! And give us all peace-of-mind!

    • Greg Sandonato

      Brain, you are 100 % wright,I have been watching this sight for 6 months,and I also would like to see or email or talk to a sucsessful,client who has utilized this system with results,there are 10 people I know who like to sign up

      • skeptic

        hey greg your right to watch me too…this ad is on g edward griffin site …so i thought had some credibility…um Ive read about becoming sovereign and thats part of what hes touting i believe… our birth certs are used as collateral on the new york stock exchange…i spoke to a man who got sovereign it takes a while… but you file forms with the state taking the rights to your name back so the federal gov cant use it anymore and this effectivly erases your debt…anyhow its complicated you have to be devoted…but a lot of people are doing it… will watch this…i want to see people who have done it.. no secrets no bs…

      • http://GetOutOfDebt.org Steve Rhode

        Yea, that’s not going to fly. I’ve seen enough cases shooting this down to know the argument has no legs.

        Your birth certificate is NOT used as collateral for anything. The position that the birth certificate is printed by people that print stock certificates as evidence that it is a publicly traded document is wrong. In order to combat birth certificate fraud a number of states have turned to using certificate paper or bank note security paper that has security features in it. This is typically printed by companies that have experience in printing this type of paper. The paper may contain security features and be sequentially numbered.

        Here is what the State of Oregon says about their use of banknote paper. “All new certified copies of birth, death, marriage and divorce certificates issued by the Oregon Vital Records Office are printed on intaglio banknote paper with the seal of the State of Oregon in the lower left corner and the seal of the Oregon Health Services in the lower right corner. The border should have a perceptible “rough” feel to it. Any erasures or additions to the record invalidate it. The paper has latent images in the upper right and left circles. When the paper is held at eye level and tilted slightly, a “V” is visible in the left circle and an “R” in the right. Because any document that has been photocopied could be altered and then recopied to disguise the changes, a copy you make on plain paper will not be accepted by state and federal agencies as a legal document. In the past certified copies have been made on a wide variety of paper types. All of the older types of certified copies can be identified by the raised, notary type seal. If you have a photocopy and cannot feel the raised seal, most agencies will not accept it as a certified copy since they cannot tell whether the document has been altered.” – Source

  • http://www.opencoffeeshoptoday.com/ Ally@OpenCoffeeShop

    This is an extreme tactic and Only for the strong minded. It is not a pay your mortgage off quickly but a never pay your mortgage at all tactic.

    It all depends on your view of what the federal reserve really is and what our individual rights are (especially concerning the meaning and commercial value of our birth certificate)…this is some crazy theory but if it were true – WOW!!!

    What concerns me is that there are no completed cases????? And more importantly people who have tried a similar path (but I guess with some major faults) ended up getting arrested…I really don’t want to be arrested being the guinea pig…waiting for some results myself I guess.
    .-= Ally@OpenCoffeeShop´s last blog ..Coffee Drink Recipes =-.

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