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Apparently American Financial Service Did Not Get the Memo on Advanced Fees

A tipster (send in your tips here) sent me a link and asked me to look at the website for American Financial Service. The tipster (send in your tips here) said they were still claiming to charge an advanced fee for debt settlement services.

Apparently American Financial Service Did Not Get the Memo on Advanced Fees

Well sure enough, it does appear that American Financial Services does make the statement about charging an advanced fee for debt settlement services.

What will I pay for your services?
American Financial Service has a 15% fee which is calculated based on the total amount of debt that an individual brings into the debt settlement program. This program requires one or two down payments then small monthly fees paid throughout the first year of the program.

All costs and fees are always fully disclosed and you are required to sign for approval before you commit to our program. – Source

Of course on the same page they also have this graphic.

Apparently American Financial Service Did Not Get the Memo on Advanced Fees

They also claim to be members of TASC and USOBA. But I was under the impression that both organizations did not permit advanced fees for debt settlement anymore.

The debt calculator page provides the following example of their program compared to others.

Apparently American Financial Service Did Not Get the Memo on Advanced Fees

It does appear they are saying debt will be paid off within 36 months and that the debt will be reduced but there is no way to tell from the graphic how much their fees are since the cost is inclusive of fees. The claim to be debt free in 36 months seems to be in conflict with the FTC telemarketing sales rules. The 36 month claim backs up their statement in the previous graphic as well. Apparently that is their position.

Another interesting fact is American Financial Services says they are located at 9530 Hageman Road Suite B #296 Bakersfield, CA 93312. – Source The address given by American Financial Service is actually that of UPS Store #4360.

Apparently American Financial Service Did Not Get the Memo on Advanced Fees

According to public records, AmericanFinancialService.org is registered to:

Carlos Lopez
World Class Debt Services, Inc.
600 Anton Suite 1900
Costa Mesa, California, 92626
[email protected]

I could not independently verify the address given.

I was able to verify that World Class Debt Services is doing business as American Financial Service. – Source

World Class Debt Services, Inc. appear to belong to the following people. Carlos Lopez, Eric Thompson, Hannah Dixon, Robert Kurhajian, Sarah Blanco.

Apparently American Financial Service Did Not Get the Memo on Advanced Fees

Carlos Lopez is also the person behind Quality Support Services, LLC in California.

In 2009, Quality Support Services, LLC sued American Debt Relief Services, Inc. In that complaint it said “QSS is one of the premier providers of account management and debt settlement services in the United States.” – Source

Quality Support Services claims to be a member of TASC, USOBA and IAPDA.

Apparently American Financial Service Did Not Get the Memo on Advanced Fees

The BBB Also lists 2222 Michelson Drive #222-601 Irvine, CA 92612as an address for American Financial Service. – Source. But get this, that address appears to belong to yet another mail drop, Pack N Ship. – Source

I’ve given up being surprised how all these things wind up being linked.

Update 2-22-2011

More scoop from yet another tipster (send in your tips here).

According to the tipster (send in your tips here) here is the chain of events.

In 2003, Robert Kurhajian was the owner of World Class Debt Services, doing business as American Financial Service. His partner was Erick Graziano and they were doing business under the Homeland Financial umbrella. In 2005 Kurhajian and Graziano started Quality Support Services and Carlos Lopez De Magana came in as a partner.

Apparently Robert Kurhajian left the enterprises at the end of 2007, due to health reasons. Eric Thompson left prior to 2007 and was not an owner.

Sarah Blanco is reported to be the sister of Carlos Lopez De Magana.

Apparently American Financial Service Did Not Get the Memo on Advanced Fees
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About Steve Rhode

Steve Rhode
Steve Rhode is the Get Out of Debt Guy and has been helping good people with bad debt problems since 1994. You can learn more about Steve, here.
  • Anonymous

    Blah,

    good question. new government regulation restricts Debt settlement companies from charging fees up front IF the client joined after a certain date. So if you joined prior to the cut off date, you still get bent over by the fees. they are having trouble with this because they can’t make any money without charging up front fees. by the time the client decides the program is BS they will have already collected a nice little chunk of change from all the months of fees (non refundable per contract unless LHDR). In defense of nobody, the government doesn’t do anything in the interest of the people without them making a buck period. An optimistic might assume that the regulation was a direct response to the scamming of peoples by DSC’s.. not the case..the regulation was funded by the DSC’s competition — the consolidation companies lobby and their $$$ interests…its all about the $$$ on all sides..so take what you will from that.

    short answer: no they can’t charge fees up front anymore. BUT they are and have been working on a loophole to get around that as usual. That’s where mydebtportal.com comes in, this new idea just provides the “tools” – ie power of attorney (thats it) and steps needed to settle the debt on your own DUHH, you basically just pay for the “tools” not the service..these tools are available on other websites for free. The DSCs have conventions all the time where they hash out new ideas on how to get that money baby. thats all it is. DSCs can’t survive without up front fees, their competition knows this and thats why they have decided to try to take out the legs of the chair.

    A debt settlement company basically does this..you enroll in the program, they charge the first 2-4 months in up front down payments or retainers before the monthly fees. the dsc cant actually say stop paying your credit cards cuz that creates liability, but thats basically what the client needs to and will do. the client then makes payments to the DSC half will go to fees the other half gets accumulated in a 3rd party bank like global client solutions trust accts or noteworld whatever..global client solutions has been under heavy heat lately so they changed the name of the bank to midtrust bank…lol yeah thats what you want with people holding your money..mid trust…ha..they will keep changing banks every time they get too much heat..they are just front names to hold the money. These banks charge ridiculous monthly fees on top of the dsc fees. the dsc will claim its not an interest bearing acct..BS…the bank gets the interest cuz its in their interest to get YOUR money obviously..who do you think they are doing this for? your benefit? cool.

    so instead of the client saving the money on their own, they will continue to send it to the dsc. The DSC will claim it is actively working with your creditors bla bla bla, the collection calls are normal bla bla bla…bs..the dsc does not lift a finger until 90+ out or even more…eventually they will send whats known as a Power of attorney to the creditor..the reason they dont send them earlier is because if the creditor finds out you are going with a DSC or attorney, they think you are trying to bend them over so guess what they do? they forward it to an aggressive debt law firm like zwicker and associates immediatly..cuz if u can afford a dsc u can afford ur debt duhhh what hardship? this automatically means the best settlement you will get is 50-80% of the debt with interest. not 80% off..80% + dsc costs dont add up. so if you have 10,000$ its now going to be 16,000$ with interests cuz you stopped paying and now they will cut you a deal of 80% if u pay one lump sum or they will take you to court period. depending on your state garnishment, bank freeze and property lien laws, they could really really bend you over in court. no dsc will represent you in court ever. its all you, your un paid cards, your court date, your problem. this happens everyday all day around the country…dsc clients wake up one day and they are getting sued. because the DSC really doesn’t do crap until the client has at least 40-50% of the debt saved up to settle.

    People who have money saved away will do better because they can come up with the money when the settlement window opens…if they dont have money they are out of luck and will miss the low settlement windows. Sum it up, the dsc send out a power of attorney when you have saved the money and paid the fees, they simple make a phone call to the creditor, “negotiate” a deal, if you have 50% saved they will start at 25% just like anyone would..eventually settling on 40-45% or lower when possible or they just put it on the back burner and the acct sits for months.

    The client could have saved the money under their mattress and it would collect more interest. they can still stop paying the creditor, and just call them up in say 4-6 months of not paying a dime or speaking to them at all on the phone not even once..then just say hey, im in a financial hardship here is my situation, i have 35% or whatever take it or leave it..if they want to take it, get a fax number and send them the offer in writing. the bank needs to send you an offer acceptance letter in writing and it needs to state all the legal information obviously saying that if you give them xx% now they will not be able to recollect the full ammt at a later time..easy…dont pay a dime or send any money without the legal paper in hand, dont trust a creditor to send it, if you send them money with out legal paperwork they have a right to take that to the full balance despite a contradicting phone call.thats not legal proof.

    the client can do this all on their own, much less hassle and BS. A dsc company can be run completely with a few phones and a fax machine….

    one thing this company has taught, is that if you can put your company as a medium between something everyone can do, convince people you do better than they ever could, charge some fees for basically no service, you can make a great scheme if you can sleep with that at night..

    everyone loses with this system, its not just the DSC, its the entire financial system and mentality.. when people settle their debts, the tax payer foots the bill in the end for all the other people who decided to settle for whatever reason..the banks the real financial gangsters just right it all off on their taxes…that means people who do pay their bills and taxes…will have to foot the bill..the banks pay less taxes, the people lose over all..

    the institutions are corrupt and its all about control. sad but true. you want to see change or change$$? thats the question..and you aren’t alone if you want change, you just need to be that change you want to see in the world, try to make a better system. America, its all just a social experiment, its up to yal to tweak the value systems!!!

    every input has an output

  • Blah

    Are they still charging fees up front for settlement???

  • Anonymous

    Hello,

    I have some information regarding the American Financial Services group that you might be interested in. first off let me say that this info comes directly from someone who worked very closely on operations re: American Financial Services, Quality Support Services etc etc

    I’m forwarding this info to you because the source of this info feels that this company and or companies really don’t care about peoples well being or them getting out of debt..it is a gangster mentality business of scamming people out of their money as quickly and swiftly as possible.

    first thing you need to know is that Quality Support Services is the back end company that does all the customer service and actual debt settling. It breaks down like this…Quality Support services is an umbrella with about 50+ or more debt settlement companies including AFS that pay for its back end services. Thats right over two pages full of companies that operate with basically the same service not just AFS.. different names, different scheme, different fees, same service…might be able to get that list(big thing to have indeed)

    American Financial, American Debt Services, New Beginning Financial, Glammar debt solutions, New Life Debt Relief, pro debt relief. are just some… the same back end people…the list goes on and on thats the big picture you are missing in your blogs..AFS ran with LHDR legal helpers debt resolution for a minute so they could dodge the legal restrictions of operating in certain states that required a lawyer..LHDR and their connection is a farse to operate in those states. no attorney is really there to help unless you decide to file Bankruptcy..no lawyers on site, no lawyers settling debt period.

    you can verify this by calling the toll free 888-853-6733 and simply ask a rep which company you are calling..the reps are absolutely forbidden to give out company names until they verify which one you belong with see…if a new begginning financial client calls in and someone says american financial thats big trouble. because the smoke and mirrors is to keep clients in the dark its all really the same service…

    another biggie, this may be harder for you to verify by the quality support operations is just a bunch of teenagers settling the debts and working with the customers..these reps are now making about 10 bucks an hour…so you can rest easy knowing your unpaid debts are being handled by the equivalent of a taco bell drive thru operator. very professional indeed.

    something big and possibly very well illegal…someone up top decided to include a 38$ fee monthly on top of all the other bogus fees for select clients of certain companies..if my source had the form on how the qss wants reps to handle this she would have had me send it. basically, if a client disputes the 38$ fee any farther than just rolling over and accepting it, it will be forwarded to a manager who will remove the fee temporarily and start it up later without client knowing…they say its a maintainence fee but its all BS. they’ll say everything from cost of DSC has gone up or new regulation..all BS.. this fee is just seeing if they can get away with it or not. highly highly unethical…AFS alone with the clients they have and the 38$ fee are banking over 400,000$ a month just from that fee alone..all while keeping the taco bell drive thru settlement kids on the same wage…quoting hard times = no possible raise or meaningful performance evaluation

    can you say gangsta???

    if a client begins to want to cancel, they are sent to the professional bullshitter dept who is really really good at tricking people to stay with the program a little longer.
    using all sorts of emotional manipulation etc.

    these people have been in the scam game a long long time..this isn’t there first go at it, neither their first operation of the sort. they will ride this wave until it crashes and start the next thing…do a little research on Erik Graziano (AFS) and Donald Ryan (ADS) in re: to the FTC.gov federal trade commission..they’ve gotten their hands dirty before. (ie the half empty printer ink cartridge racket )

    Erik G and Don R. are the main OGs..your hierarchy table is out dated and in accurate. Erik owns AFS, Don Ryan owns ADS, Carlos Lopez is just a business man who worked his way into this group somehow..owns QSS and a small stake in AFS. Carlos has a sister, Sarah yayo Blanco, she is a nobody, but her official role is in Human Resources but shes paid like a full time lawyer big $$$ runs the place like her own little disney land. Hannah was just a secretary to Sarah. I dont think you can find a better paid Human resources in Irvine. New man on deck is Don Kennedy part time real estate agent part time new vice president of QSS and creator of http://www.mydebtportal.com the new scam in works..a real player in this game now.

    These guys are really good at hiding their dirt. They use multiple addresses and sometimes set up mailing boxes at places they previously had offices..their main office where everyone(AFS sales and QSS) still is, is actually right across the street from the old Irvine Address they have listed…Michelson & Von Karmen, top floor of a secure building. my source requested not to give out the address for various reasons but the main mess hall is located right there in Irvine off the 405 freeway.

    This main gang doesn’t trust outsiders very much, there is a high turn over of reps, most no longer than a year because they dont want them there too long. Most normal conscious possessing people cannot take the mental drain of being a rep that long anyways..its lies on every call period all day everyday 5 days a week. the sales rep sells the dream and the reps keep it going as long as possible before the nightmare reality. there is a lot! of money involved and a lot of players involved in this, Graziano is just the tip of one iceberg, they work with a bunch of other corporate financial gangster types..possibly even mafia connected due to the sheer amount of money and power they have, this wouldnt surprise the source. the source isnt releasing all she knows because of fear of her psychical safety. no joke. this may get you to dig deeper but the hole goes much farther..hope this helps you get the word out…these guys dont give a damn about anyone except themselves,..hopefully that will be their down fall…these companies fart around with peoples time, money and emotions..the clients should know they would be much better off if they just did it themselves…with all the new info out there, the big guys are reevaluating their next moves/scams..its becoming harder to get away with it..stay tuned! if this info has any merit and gets posted the source may consider getting you more info that you seek.

  • Anonymous

    Hello,

    I have some information regarding the American Financial Services group that you might be interested in. first off let me say that this info comes directly from someone who worked very closely on operations re: American Financial Services, Quality Support Services etc etc

    I’m forwarding this info to you because the source of this info feels that this company and or companies really don’t care about peoples well being or them getting out of debt..it is a gangster mentality business of scamming people out of their money as quickly and swiftly as possible.

    first thing you need to know is that Quality Support Services is the back end company that does all the customer service and actual debt settling. It breaks down like this…Quality Support services is an umbrella with about 50+ or more debt settlement companies including AFS that pay for its back end services. Thats right over two pages full of companies that operate with basically the same service not just AFS.. different names, different scheme, different fees, same service…might be able to get that list(big thing to have indeed)

    American Financial, American Debt Services, New Beginning Financial, Glammar debt solutions, New Life Debt Relief, pro debt relief. are just some… the same back end people…the list goes on and on thats the big picture you are missing in your blogs..AFS ran with LHDR legal helpers debt resolution for a minute so they could dodge the legal restrictions of operating in certain states that required a lawyer..LHDR and their connection is a farse to operate in those states. no attorney is really there to help unless you decide to file Bankruptcy..no lawyers on site, no lawyers settling debt period.

    you can verify this by calling the toll free 888-853-6733 and simply ask a rep which company you are calling..the reps are absolutely forbidden to give out company names until they verify which one you belong with see…if a new begginning financial client calls in and someone says american financial thats big trouble. because the smoke and mirrors is to keep clients in the dark its all really the same service…

    another biggie, this may be harder for you to verify by the quality support operations is just a bunch of teenagers settling the debts and working with the customers..these reps are now making about 10 bucks an hour…so you can rest easy knowing your unpaid debts are being handled by the equivalent of a taco bell drive thru operator. very professional indeed.

    something big and possibly very well illegal…someone up top decided to include a 38$ fee monthly on top of all the other bogus fees for select clients of certain companies..if my source had the form on how the qss wants reps to handle this she would have had me send it. basically, if a client disputes the 38$ fee any farther than just rolling over and accepting it, it will be forwarded to a manager who will remove the fee temporarily and start it up later without client knowing…they say its a maintainence fee but its all BS. they’ll say everything from cost of DSC has gone up or new regulation..all BS.. this fee is just seeing if they can get away with it or not. highly highly unethical…AFS alone with the clients they have and the 38$ fee are banking over 400,000$ a month just from that fee alone..all while keeping the taco bell drive thru settlement kids on the same wage…quoting hard times = no possible raise or meaningful performance evaluation

    can you say gangsta???

    if a client begins to want to cancel, they are sent to the professional bullshitter dept who is really really good at tricking people to stay with the program a little longer.
    using all sorts of emotional manipulation etc.

    these people have been in the scam game a long long time..this isn’t there first go at it, neither their first operation of the sort. they will ride this wave until it crashes and start the next thing…do a little research on Erik Graziano (AFS) and Donald Ryan (ADS) in re: to the FTC.gov federal trade commission..they’ve gotten their hands dirty before. (ie the half empty printer ink cartridge racket )

    Erik G and Don R. are the main OGs..your hierarchy table is out dated and in accurate. Erik owns AFS, Don Ryan owns ADS, Carlos Lopez is just a business man who worked his way into this group somehow..owns QSS and a small stake in AFS. Carlos has a sister, Sarah yayo Blanco, she is a nobody, but her official role is in Human Resources but shes paid like a full time lawyer big $$$ runs the place like her own little disney land. Hannah was just a secretary to Sarah. I dont think you can find a better paid Human resources in Irvine. New man on deck is Don Kennedy part time real estate agent part time new vice president of QSS and creator of http://www.mydebtportal.com the new scam in works..a real player in this game now.

    These guys are really good at hiding their dirt. They use multiple addresses and sometimes set up mailing boxes at places they previously had offices..their main office where everyone(AFS sales and QSS) still is, is actually right across the street from the old Irvine Address they have listed…Michelson & Von Karmen, top floor of a secure building. my source requested not to give out the address for various reasons but the main mess hall is located right there in Irvine off the 405 freeway.

    This main gang doesn’t trust outsiders very much, there is a high turn over of reps, most no longer than a year because they dont want them there too long. Most normal conscious possessing people cannot take the mental drain of being a rep that long anyways..its lies on every call period all day everyday 5 days a week. the sales rep sells the dream and the reps keep it going as long as possible before the nightmare reality. there is a lot! of money involved and a lot of players involved in this, Graziano is just the tip of one iceberg, they work with a bunch of other corporate financial gangster types..possibly even mafia connected due to the sheer amount of money and power they have, this wouldnt surprise the source. the source isnt releasing all she knows because of fear of her psychical safety. no joke. this may get you to dig deeper but the hole goes much farther..hope this helps you get the word out…these guys dont give a damn about anyone except themselves,..hopefully that will be their down fall…these companies fart around with peoples time, money and emotions..the clients should know they would be much better off if they just did it themselves…with all the new info out there, the big guys are reevaluating their next moves/scams..its becoming harder to get away with it..stay tuned! if this info has any merit and gets posted the source may consider getting you more info that you seek.

    • Blah

      Are they still charging fees up front for settlement???

      • Anonymous

        Blah,

        good question. new government regulation restricts Debt settlement companies from charging fees up front IF the client joined after a certain date. So if you joined prior to the cut off date, you still get bent over by the fees. they are having trouble with this because they can’t make any money without charging up front fees. by the time the client decides the program is BS they will have already collected a nice little chunk of change from all the months of fees (non refundable per contract unless LHDR). In defense of nobody, the government doesn’t do anything in the interest of the people without them making a buck period. An optimistic might assume that the regulation was a direct response to the scamming of peoples by DSC’s.. not the case..the regulation was funded by the DSC’s competition — the consolidation companies lobby and their $$$ interests…its all about the $$$ on all sides..so take what you will from that.

        short answer: no they can’t charge fees up front anymore. BUT they are and have been working on a loophole to get around that as usual. That’s where mydebtportal.com comes in, this new idea just provides the “tools” – ie power of attorney (thats it) and steps needed to settle the debt on your own DUHH, you basically just pay for the “tools” not the service..these tools are available on other websites for free. The DSCs have conventions all the time where they hash out new ideas on how to get that money baby. thats all it is. DSCs can’t survive without up front fees, their competition knows this and thats why they have decided to try to take out the legs of the chair.

        A debt settlement company basically does this..you enroll in the program, they charge the first 2-4 months in up front down payments or retainers before the monthly fees. the dsc cant actually say stop paying your credit cards cuz that creates liability, but thats basically what the client needs to and will do. the client then makes payments to the DSC half will go to fees the other half gets accumulated in a 3rd party bank like global client solutions trust accts or noteworld whatever..global client solutions has been under heavy heat lately so they changed the name of the bank to midtrust bank…lol yeah thats what you want with people holding your money..mid trust…ha..they will keep changing banks every time they get too much heat..they are just front names to hold the money. These banks charge ridiculous monthly fees on top of the dsc fees. the dsc will claim its not an interest bearing acct..BS…the bank gets the interest cuz its in their interest to get YOUR money obviously..who do you think they are doing this for? your benefit? cool.

        so instead of the client saving the money on their own, they will continue to send it to the dsc. The DSC will claim it is actively working with your creditors bla bla bla, the collection calls are normal bla bla bla…bs..the dsc does not lift a finger until 90+ out or even more…eventually they will send whats known as a Power of attorney to the creditor..the reason they dont send them earlier is because if the creditor finds out you are going with a DSC or attorney, they think you are trying to bend them over so guess what they do? they forward it to an aggressive debt law firm like zwicker and associates immediatly..cuz if u can afford a dsc u can afford ur debt duhhh what hardship? this automatically means the best settlement you will get is 50-80% of the debt with interest. not 80% off..80% + dsc costs dont add up. so if you have 10,000$ its now going to be 16,000$ with interests cuz you stopped paying and now they will cut you a deal of 80% if u pay one lump sum or they will take you to court period. depending on your state garnishment, bank freeze and property lien laws, they could really really bend you over in court. no dsc will represent you in court ever. its all you, your un paid cards, your court date, your problem. this happens everyday all day around the country…dsc clients wake up one day and they are getting sued. because the DSC really doesn’t do crap until the client has at least 40-50% of the debt saved up to settle.

        People who have money saved away will do better because they can come up with the money when the settlement window opens…if they dont have money they are out of luck and will miss the low settlement windows. Sum it up, the dsc send out a power of attorney when you have saved the money and paid the fees, they simple make a phone call to the creditor, “negotiate” a deal, if you have 50% saved they will start at 25% just like anyone would..eventually settling on 40-45% or lower when possible or they just put it on the back burner and the acct sits for months.

        The client could have saved the money under their mattress and it would collect more interest. they can still stop paying the creditor, and just call them up in say 4-6 months of not paying a dime or speaking to them at all on the phone not even once..then just say hey, im in a financial hardship here is my situation, i have 35% or whatever take it or leave it..if they want to take it, get a fax number and send them the offer in writing. the bank needs to send you an offer acceptance letter in writing and it needs to state all the legal information obviously saying that if you give them xx% now they will not be able to recollect the full ammt at a later time..easy…dont pay a dime or send any money without the legal paper in hand, dont trust a creditor to send it, if you send them money with out legal paperwork they have a right to take that to the full balance despite a contradicting phone call.thats not legal proof.

        the client can do this all on their own, much less hassle and BS. A dsc company can be run completely with a few phones and a fax machine….

        one thing this company has taught, is that if you can put your company as a medium between something everyone can do, convince people you do better than they ever could, charge some fees for basically no service, you can make a great scheme if you can sleep with that at night..

        everyone loses with this system, its not just the DSC, its the entire financial system and mentality.. when people settle their debts, the tax payer foots the bill in the end for all the other people who decided to settle for whatever reason..the banks the real financial gangsters just right it all off on their taxes…that means people who do pay their bills and taxes…will have to foot the bill..the banks pay less taxes, the people lose over all..

        the institutions are corrupt and its all about control. sad but true. you want to see change or change$$? thats the question..and you aren’t alone if you want change, you just need to be that change you want to see in the world, try to make a better system. America, its all just a social experiment, its up to yal to tweak the value systems!!!

        every input has an output

      • Jillkesselring2003

        I know this is almost a year old, but I was researching the above named company, and found this. I enrolled into a program with AFS and LHDR 2 months ago. Before, when doing research, I found no negative info, now I am finding all kinds! Don’t know what to do!! Any help?

      • http://GetOutOfDebt.org Steve Rhode

        LHDR recently terminated all their relationships with outside companies. Who specifically is currently handling your account? LHDR or AFS?

      • Pvt287

        I have a question the a over group is said to have a loan for me of 4000
        But that I need to put 218 on a green dot Walmart card for them witch will be refunded?
        Sounds like a scam

      • http://GetOutOfDebt.org Steve Rhode

        Without more detail it sure sounds sketchy.

  • Tipster

    yo

  • Tipster

    yo

  • Upperto

    Carlos Lopez De Me Idiot. That’s his real last name.

  • Upperto

    Carlos Lopez De Me Idiot. That’s his real last name.

  • Damon Day

    ha ha, that is funny.

  • Angelo

    Why would anyone even admit they are members of TASC or USOBA at this point?

  • Angelo

    Why would anyone even admit they are members of TASC or USOBA at this point?

    • http://DamonDay.com Damon Day

      ha ha, that is funny.

  • Jason

    If nothing else I would say they have a nice logo and a good name, but I doubt they own the trademark on the name.

    My bet is the almost identical name is tradmarked by these guys- http://www.afsaonline.org/

  • Jason

    If nothing else I would say they have a nice logo and a good name, but I doubt they own the trademark on the name.

    My bet is the almost identical name is tradmarked by these guys- http://www.afsaonline.org/

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