I took another look at the search volume of the terms “debt settlement” and “credit counseling” to see if there has been any uptick in search volume for these terms.
According to data from the last 12 months the number of consumers searching for these terms is hovering at historically low levels. Debt settlement search traffic appears to be off by 66% while credit counseling search traffic is down by about a third.
It seems that the slowdown debt relief providers are reporting continues to be evidenced in search traffic volume. With a reduction in demand for these debt relief services the cost per acquisition for debt relief providers in these niches will continue to probably be steady or even rise a bit.
I can always use your help. If you have a tip or information you want to share, you can get it to me confidentially if you click here.
Hey Duran Duran,
Maybe you and your flock of seagulls wannabe settlement guru attorney bar card borrowing hungry like the wolf listening crew should read this article:
https://getoutofdebt.org/27220/…
Keep throwing those shadow box punches while dancing to the song reflex. You’ll get in shape.
How am I creating fear? Point me to a story that is not true and let’s talk specifics.
That is certainly one way to look at it, but it bears no resemblance to the truth. The number of referrals is very low because the number of people best suited for a credit counseling solution right now is low. The overwhelming vast majority of readers come to read and learn.
What email address? If you mean the sd*******@*ol.com I found it from Google. It’s already online.
You say I’m encouraging consumers to signup with non-attorny companies but that’s not true as well. There is an attorney backed model with the AACC, which is where I direct consumers for debt settlement help when they are looking for a company to work with.
You seem to have the impression that attorney backed companies are somehow cleaner and safer. Yet the two largest implosions in the past couple of years that hurt the largest number of consumers were attorney based debt settlement companies. Are you familiar with Allegro Law and Hess Kennedy? The attorneys behind those operations were disbarred and the companies shutdown by the respective states.
The irony here is that I say to consumers here are all the options and let’s talk about what is right for your situation. You only seem to say that attorney backed debt settlement is the option of choice. Who’s steering?
You know, all you have done is attack and you’ve yet to let us compare your solution. So who is it that you are selling?
Exactly, Steve is creating content (fear) in exchange for ad revenue exceeding six figures. Isn’t that a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black?
Steve, the bottom line is that you are using scare tactics to lure consumers into using the “non-profit†*cough* Credit Counseling Companies you are compensated by. You are also encouraging gullible debtors to sign up with NON-ATTORNEY debt settlement companies who will not charge ANY upfront fees which is not true.
The question for the consumer should be simple…â€Mrs. Jones, do you want to work with a NON-ATTORNEY BASED company who can get shut down and then just open up across the street under a different name?†OR, “Would you rather work with an attorney who is licensed in your state, governed by the State Bar, and can lose his/her license to practice law if they don’t perform?†I personally would prefer to have a signed contract from an attorney verses “ABC Debt Settlement.†Attorneys DO Not work without getting paid….Plain and Simple. If you get a DUI, you would hire an attorney who specializes in that field. Attorneys don’t say, “You can pay me once the case is settled.†If an attorney screws anyone over, their reputation will be ruined and it could cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars or more. If your “Tom, Dick, and Harry†NON-ATTORNEY based company screws a consumer over and gets shut down, all they have to do is open up a different corporation under a different name. They do not face the possibility of losing their license to practice law they worked 20 years to obtain.
You are only promoting Credit Counseling and Debt Settlement Companies who compensate you, which is very unfair for the consumers who are facing a financial hardship.
On a different note, I think it was VERY unprofessional of you to post someone’s email address on your blog for all the bots to pick up. I think you are only trying to get rich by scaring desperate borrowers into using the companies you endorse.
Sigh…..
Weird… It looks exactly like you! lol
Still, no denial tho…
Oh, I see…You did a search…I also ran a search, and this looks like the guy you are looking for:
http://www.facebook.com/sduran… so why don’t you confront him. As far as your response, I will get to it later. Gotta get back to work helping people.
No, your email address is not Steve Duran but if you do a simple Google search for sduran165 the top listings are for a Steve Duran with a similar email address. sd*******@*ol.com. I didn’t say you were, another commenter made that statement. I just asked you if you were. And you’ve never denied that.
While you say you didn’t come here to solicit business or endorse any lawyers you work with, you did apparently come here to attack. I think in light of all your claims and assertions, which have not proven to be true, a request who you work for is not unwarranted and is open and transparent so we can compare what you are representing versus what you are claiming I have said unfairly. That is unless you feel there is something to hide.
You continue to make wild and unsubstantiated claims about backdoor deals or telling people to always avoid debt settlement when that is absolutely not the case. Just click on any debt settlement link in any article that uses that phrase and it will take you to debt settlement help. In fact the site even has a debt settlement forum section to assist people.
I’ve asked you repeatedly to point out a story you felt was unfair or give me a specific example to backup your claims. You haven’t. Why not?
I’ve asked you to do that so we can talk specifics but yet you continue to regurgitate the same broad statements and incorrect facts which appears to be the same issue you accuse me of.
If you think myself or this site is responsible for the years of work by the FTC in crafting the TSR or the refusal of the debt settlement trade associations to embrace UDMSA way back in 2007-2008, then you my friend are just flat out wrong.
It doesn’t bother me that you obviously hate me. I don’t give a crap about that. What bothers me is that you are so grossly uninformed about the industry at large and the chain of events that led to the FTC TSR and the hurt that is coming for attorney model firms. I’m trying to help you become better informed. That’s why I ask you, time and time again, for a specific example of something so we can talk specifics.
You claim my “smear” campaigns put the hurt on debt settlement and that’s what is causing companies to close. There is certainly another side to that story. The reality is the lack of measurable performance by many debt settlement companies, the collection of advanced fees and not delivering the product, the documented lies that were told to consumers and the refusal of companies to make refunds is what led to the crackdown.
Do you honestly think if I said all red apples should be banned that the FTC and states would jump and do that? I challenge you to find a body of work here that leads a charge against something that does not exist. This site reports on the issues at hand and the claims made.
If a company feels they can’t deliver services under a model where they are paid for real performance, that’s not an issue I created, that’s because the company has a failed business model. I’ve shown you performance based companies that have good BBB ratings and have been delivering performance based services for years. It can be done.
Of all your comments the one that still has me the most intrigued is this one. In response I said, “Interesting example. Let’s talk about this case. But before any of us can recommend a solution we first need to know some basic information. Tell us about the client’s situation.” You didn’t bother. Let’s talk specifics. Why is that example a good candidate for debt settlement?
And if you think that a debt management plan should not be considered in certain situations then why is TASC training member companies to use DMPs as part of a hybrid model? Why would TASC be steering people towards a DMP, like I do sometimes? Do I now have secret powers over TASC members?
You’d be a much wiser person if you asked the collective talent here for advice and help than continue to talk about things you are not very informed about.
One last thing. If my statements led to the collapse of the debt settlement industry, then why would search traffic be down for both debt settlement and credit counseling. That what this article was about. You would think the trends in consumers searching for debt relief help would be increasing for credit counseling while decreasing for debt settlement, but that’s not what’s actually happening. The reason companies are dying is because there is less demand for debt settlement services in general and they can’t continue profiteering under business models that are no longer legal.
“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt” – Abraham Lincoln.
Steve has only come out against Debt Settlement companies that charge fees upfront and attorney models. If you consider either of those models legit then you are part of the problem and not part of the solution. Steve has never, ever expressed that Debt Settlement is bad and to stay away.
My email address is not Steve Duran, and you should know that from when I registered to post on this page. What you think my name is really not important. I did not come here to solicit business or endorse any of the lawyers I work with. I just wanted to point out to you that you have been using scare tactics and smear campaigns against many legitimate debt settlement companies for your own personal gain. You already said that you get compensated by the Consumer Credit Counseling companies you refer clients to. You also said you get compensated when you refer people to a Bankruptcy attorney for a Bankruptcy. You have been scaring people away from “debt settlement” for at least the past year, so that you can refer them into Credit Counseling or Bankruptcy. I know you felt relieved after your personal Bankruptcy (I watched your youtube video), but Bankruptcy is not for everybody, and for many “debt settlement” is a viable option. The problem is that you talk crap on almost ALL debt settlement companies out there unless you have a back door relationship with them. There are some bad debt settlement companies out there, and there are some good ones. You however bash any company that is not in bed with you.
For the past year with consumers would do a google search on “debt settlement,” they get bombarded with negative reviews from your site. You are not some financial guru who has any experience in financial services that I know of, but the gullible consumers and the “Joe Six-packs” out there don’t know that. Therefore, they read your blog and decide to do a Bankruptcy instead of a “debt settlement” program that would have helped them prevent Bankruptcy.
Many people (myself included), believe you intentionally and maliciously crashed people’s legitimate debt settlement businesses, and scared people into filing unnecessary Bankruptcies that could have been avoided.
Thanks to you and your negative campaigning, many legitimate debt settlement companies have decided to shut down. I stopped by my friend’s office the other day who had 5 debt settlement consultants. Between their five people, they were enrolling over $5million in debt per month. When I stopped by, I was surprised to find out that they were no longer doing debt settlement. The point is that you and your smear campaigns have put so much of a burden on the legitimate debt settlement companies, that it’s not worth it for them to continue helping people. I don’t have to pay $6k per month for office space, so I’m in a different position then him, but I wish you would stop pretending to be a consumer advocate when you are only helping the Big Banks by stirring people into Credit Counseling or stirring them into Bankruptcy.
You are not a financial GURU, but “Joe-Six-pack” still eats if up like a fat boy does cake…
Do you hear that? That’s the sound of Sduran165 walking away with his tail between his legs.
Now go home and get your shine box….
Not sure we are talking about the same group. The NACA I am referring to is an association of consumer advocate attorneys. I am not aware that NACA receives direct referrals, let alone hundreds of thousands of them.
I find it unlikely in the extreme that NACA receives money from banks. Their member attorneys are generally found to provide representation in protecting consumers from the financial services industry at large.
I also find it unlikely that NACA receives taxpayer money.
The email address. And I didn’t through the name out there first, another commenter did. I’m just asking if it is true. Is it?
Do you do any research or just make it up as you go? That was in 2005 before the new Cambridge was born.
To better understand Cambridge Credit Counseling and why I recommend then you should read this and listen to the interviews on the history.
As far as I’m aware they are the first credit counseling group to publish their performance numbers. Very impressive as well.
Still no openness and transparency from you though.
hahaha!! What makes you think I’m him? I like the way you throw out people’s names out there…just sayin’
Michael, wow! Are you serious about NACA? LMFAO!! Do you know how many people I’ve talked to who went to NACA to get “free” help for a loan modification, and then got foreclosed on? Out of the hundreds of thousands of people who go to NACA for help, how many do you think actually got a successful loan modification? Not very many. Who do you think pays NACA? Taxpayers and hint hint (the Banks)?
I also heard that Steve is selling off leads to Cambridge Credit Counseling Corporation who was sued by the state of Illinois for charging predatory fees…You already admitted that Cambridge pays you, but why would you refer people to a company who has a reputation for charging higher upfront fees then permitted?
I’m curious to know what company you work for? You must not work with licensed attorneys, because I have never heard of an attorney who will work for six months without getting paid. Also, what percentage of the savings does your company charge the consumer?
Is that who Sduran165 is? What say you Sduran165. Are you the Steve Duran that was with Homefield Financial?
QUOTE:
“””””***Now that Steve Rhodes and other bloggers went on a witch hunt against Debt Settlement companies, many debt settlement candidates are forced into Bankruptcy. This is where Steve Rhode must make some good coin.***””””””
Well, since the “front Fee” model had a success rate LESS than 10%, while the performance based model was 70%, wouldn’t you agree that MOST of those debt settlement candidates WERE MORE SUITED FOR BK IN THE FIRST PLACE!?!??
But great sales guys like you could ONLY make money putting square pegs into round holes, cancelling clients if they missed a payment & keeping all that yummy “no work” fee, paying sales affiliate companies 70-90% of the fee charged on every new client…. Sound familiar? It should- It’s not only what you used to do, but what you are doing now by using an attorney’s name.
Your company charging extra for litigation services too?
Mmmmmmmm…. I love that “New To The Industry” smell…
Not you Steve- “Steve Duran”. Sorry for the confusion.
That makes no sense. Can you rephrase your question? I’ve never done loan mods.
Steve- No more ripping people off for loan mods? Once CA changed their laws? NOW you’re a debt settlement expert?
Oh the irony. Just out today a press release from a debt settlement company, Prestige Financial Solutions, The Debt Settlement Industry Is Dead! The release supports the FTC changes and says their business is growing. They are not an attorney based company.
Referral commission to BK is $15.
Active Debt Solutions- Going on its 4th year as one of maybe 10 companies that NEVER charged up front settlement fee- always performance based. The SEFloridaBBB stinks- We had an A+ but thanks to companies like yours, the BBB here took all DS ratings down. They have offered to re examine ours- We have sent in our paperwork twice. We gave up. The BBB does not drive our business.
The referral network is totalbankruptcy.com. Site reader feedback has been very good and people are impressed how quickly they are contacted. I’ve had a relationship with them for years and would encourage anyone looking for a similar referral resource to check them out.
I know for a fact- the BK referrals pay $15….
It’s like talking to a wall Michael, he either doesn’t get it or he is trying to justify still charging his fees upfront. Sduran165 – I sure hope those estimates are from your past performances; you’re most likely violating FTC rules. Have you had anyone complete your program to make those claims or are you just using the upfront fee model’s calculator…psst, those calculators have been broken for years…. because without knowing who the creditors are or taking lawsuits into consideration it’s impossible and misleading to make those claims.
Your comments show your inexperience and it may have been a better idea to spend more time reading Steve’s articles and posts prior to bashing his cause. C’mon, the guy is a big teddy bear and if you took the time to read through the site you would see he genuinely tries to help consumers. Journalists need to make a living too, do you settle debt for free?
By the way….Active Debt has been incorporated since 2008 and only charge a % of saving at settlement.
Question: How do you charge your fees and what is the name of your company?
I’d be glad to share any additional info about my program and my company, I have nothing to hide…do you ?
Angelo Anzalone
Active Debt Solutions
angelo@active-debt.com
Interesting example. Let’s talk about this case.
But before any of us can recommend a solution we first need to know some basic information. Tell us about the client’s situation.
As I have said repeatedly now to you, all of my relationships are openly and transparently spelled out in the site terms. I don’t know who the local attorneys are. I do provide the names of a few local attorneys I like on the bankruptcy page and I receive nothing from them.
What I find interesting is you come and attack but you don’t answer any of my questions.
You accused me of being paid by “big banks” which is not true, and I answered that.
You said I had launched a “vicious agenda against the debt settlement industry” but when I asked you to point out a specific example and let’s talk about it, you didn’t.
You said “Now that Steve Rhodes and other bloggers went on a witch hunt against Debt Settlement companies, many debt settlement candidates are forced into Bankruptcy,” but when I asked for examples of my witch hunt you didn’t provide any.
You asked me to refer you to debt settlement companies that have A rating and I did that and you attacked them.
I asked you what company you worked for but you didn’t respond, which I find interesting. You seem to be demanding openness and transparency from others but yet you refuse to be open and transparent.
I can only speak for CRN and we do not underwrite the type of file outlined in your comment.
I would like to know what attorneys are splitting fees with Steve Rhode, directly or indirectly…so why don’t you ask him for a list…
Yes, it’s still alive and I’m still serving clients. I can offer Credit Counseling, but it doesn’t make sense for most people. In fact, I looking at the #s right now and if somebody has $49,336 in debt, I can help them get enrolled into a 40 month Debt Settlement Program in which their payment will only be $696 per month. They would pay a total of $27k including fees. On a 36 month program, their payment goes up to $769 and they will pay a total of $26,936 including all fees…That’s not a bad deal…I highly doubt any of the companies Steve Rhode recommended can do that…just sayin’
You make good points.
Consumers should get informed about all 3 options and choose the one that makes the most sense.
I am finishing up an article for publishing today that speaks to all 3 of the options and the math generally associated with each.
I will link it here when it goes live.
Original incorporation was in 2006. Situs transferred in 08.
I would personally like to see NACA member attorneys involved in the AACC as they maintain practices exclusive to consumer protection.
I would also like to see NACBA get involved too.
I think the AACC is a great place for attorney membership. I would like to see more of them involved. Do you have some recommendations you can make?
Michael, I meant saving $750, not $650. I would always advice people of their options of Bankruptcy and tell them to talk to an attorney about that. Most of the people do not want to go thru a Bankruptcy if they don’t have to.
Another Option for the consumer might be Debt Consolidation which is a loan to pay off their outstanding credit card balances. The problem is that most have beat up credit and don’t qualify for a loan. Also, they would just be robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Another Option is Consumer Credit Counseling which only reduces the interest rates on the credit cards, but the payment stays close to the same as their current payments, and most cannot afford it. Plus Credit Counseling stays on the consumer’s Credit Report for several years and looks almost as bad as a Bankruptcy. Credit Counseling is probably the worst options for any consumer to take.
Then there’s Debt Settlement where licensed attorneys communicate with their creditors and collectors they are dealing with, and negotiate their debts down to about 40%-60% of what they owe. Even if the attorney’s charge an additional 15%, the consumer is only paying a total of about 55% of what they owe, their payment would be about half of what they are currently paying, and they can get out of debt is 36 months.
So, why would anybody in their right mind choose to Credit Counseling Program over a Debt Settlement Program? It doesn’t make financial sense.
Sduran,
If there are so many attorneys offering debt settlement in observance of all state and federal guidelines who also observe all bar ethics, advertising and fee splitting rules, please reply with a list of who they are. That would be a fantastic tool for consumers to speak with a local attorney.
Sduran,
Attorneys are about the only carve out in new federal laws that allow them to still charge advance fees for providing a direct debt settlement service. This fact has led many non attorney industry participants to continue with business as usual by partnering with attorneys. Regulators see that the recognized abuses in this space that are so problematic are able to continue through this work around.
Until the abuse of the attorney carve out abates, there will be many negative posts regarding attorney sponsored and or performed debt settlement services. When the abuse does diminish I will join you in encouraging consumers seek out attorneys local to them when seeking debt settlement services, but only if a marketer is not getting paid high commissions to push them to the attorney.
If the the state bar want to help things get back on track by enforcing advertising and fee split ethics rules, it would be helpful.
Only ONE of the members of the AACC is attorney based? That throws up a big Red Flag. Consumers should beware that companies who are not attorney based do not have to answer to the State Bar. Once they get shut down, all they have to do is open up another company across the street under a different name. This happens all the time. However, attorneys are held to a higher standard and put their licenses in jeopardy if they don’t do things right. Steve, it appears that the companies are only Credit Counseling Companies who chose to join the AACC group that you helped create. So, you have been “warning” the consumers about the “debt settlement” companies out there, and then stirring them to work with one of the Credit Counseling companies in your AACC network, or leading them to a Bankruptcy attorney who then has a “referral service” pay you commission…hmmm
Sduran,
You commented “With a debt settlement program, they would essentially cut their monthly payment in half from $1,500 to $750, saving them $600 per month, and be DEBT FREE in 36 months.”
In theory and promotion that is how debt settlement has been sold. In practice it has not worked out well.
Debt settlement candidates are by their very nature equal candidates for bankruptcy. Always have been. There is no force to it, just a fact given their deteriorating financial situation. Some choose to try to avoid BK by attempting settlement, some don’t. Many file BK who could have avoided it, but they still got the relief they needed. Conversely, many attempt debt settlement who would have been better off filing BK.
Oops…My bad. I meant to say that this company has only been a member with the BBB for about a year. If the business was started in 2006, then why was barely incorporated in 2008? Straight from the BBB website:
BBB file opened: March 02, 2009
Business started: 04/06/2006
Business incorporated: 07/11/2008 in ID
Sduran,
Regulators did not kill debt settlement. Debt settlement killed debt settlement.
The settlement option is of course not dead, its just that operational realities have changed. These changes caused some to leave the industry, but it is still here and in an even more viable way for those who need it.
Hi Sduran,
Consumer Recovery Network has been in operation since 2006, not just a year as your post implies.
You call the AACC a gimmick. It is not. There are many companies interested in membership. Its membership is limited on purpose at this time.
You appear to be very opinionated about attorneys being the best and most regulated to offer debt settlement services. This would lead me to believe you are one, or work and promote for one.
Attorneys offering debt settlement have been found to be some of the most problematic in the industry. Were that not the case, I would have an easier time agreeing with you.
The assorted state bar organizations have done far less to regulate the debt relief space than your comments imply they do, or would. State authorities have been the ones to step up and knock down the bad actors with the bar only taking disciplinary action after the fact.
Well, how is it that Care One Credit (one of the companies you endorse) has 76 COMPLAINTS and still has an “A” Rating with the Better Business Bureau, and there are legit companies with 10 complaints which have all been resolved, but have an “F” Rating with the BBB.
“Mitchell was a former board member of SpringBoard Credit Counseling, which, for a brief period of time, shared common office space with the Southland BBB. Could it be that Mitchell is not only being investigated by the National Council of BBBs but the IRS and FBI as well?!”—by Anon|nonA
Steve, I believe you are preying on desperate debtors by scaring them away from legitimate debt settlement programs and stirring them into your Micky Mouse Credit Counseling companies for your own personal gain. I do not believe you are a watch dog for the consumers, but are preying on the many gullible consumers for your personal gain. ONLY ONE of the Debt Settlement Companies you endorse is ATTORNEY BASED which is a HUGE RED FLAG….just sayin’
You missed attorney based Oak View Law Group with a B- BBB rating.
So what’s the name of the company you work for. Let’s check them out.
AACC…You mean American Association of Credit Counselors that was spear headed by Steve Rhode and has only been in existence for only a few months…hahaha Sounds like a gimmick, but I’m sure you are compensated handsomely if a debtor decides to use one of the few companies that have decided to join. Let’s take a look at the members of AACC I’ve found:
Active Debt Solutions—No Rating with the BBB. Probably a brand new company.
Cambridge Credit Counseling Corporation—Has an “A+” most likely, because it doesn’t show they do “debt settlement” on the BBB website and they most likely only offer Credit Counseling.
Care One Services—Has 76 COMPLAINTS against them, and still have an “A” Rating with the BBB…It appears that they do NOT offer any “Debt Settlement” program which could explain the “A†Rating.
CESI Debt Solutions—Has 39 COMPLAINTS in 3 years and still an “A+” Rating with the BBB, but they do not appear to offer a “Debt Settlement” Program, so that could explain it.
Consumer Recovery Network charges $645 upfront. Here is their fee schedule for some educational material:
http://consumerrecoverynetwork…
They have been in business for a little over one year, and have an “A” Rating with the BBB. However, look at their description says on the BBB:
Description-This company offers consumers who are struggling with debt, education in the form of audio CD’s and workbooks. The materials are supplemented by assigning a counselor to work one on one with each of its members. Full server debt mediation to its members at no up front fees and often no fee depending on the state of residency.
Debt Solutions Network LLC- No rating with the BBB. I don’t even think they have a company website, since I couldn’t find one.
New Era Debt Solutions- has an “A” Rating with the BBB, but they apparently did NOT inform the BBB that they are doing debt settlement.
Their BBB description says: Nature of Business: This company offers financial services, investments, insurance, loans and debt elimination and a debt elimination business opportunity.
None of these companies seem to be Attorney Based who do NOT have to answer to the State Bar….hmmmm Sounds a little fishy to me that you would be steering desperate borrowers to use one of these companies….just sayin’
From what others are sharing with me, settlements under the performance model are happening much faster than they were under the advanced fee model. Is that what you are seeing/hearing as well?
The other thing I’m observing is the complaints against companies has slowed significantly against performance fee companies. Attorney model advanced fee complaints are accelerating.
Since this article was about search demand, have you noticed a slow down in incoming calls or requests?
haha we should stop right here. I work for a debt settlement company… we don’t charge a dime until settlement. AND our fee is a % of the savings. BTW, newbie… If you knew anything about Global, they won’t allow fees to be released early without the settlement being paid directly from global.
I talk about all the relationships this site has in an open and transparent way in the site terms.
You still have not identified a story you feel I was unfair to debt settlement. You keep making broad statements that I’ve been unfair or on a witch hunt for debt settlement. Point to an example so we can discuss it.
“Find me a debt settlement company that does not collect upfront fees for service, and I will discover that it’s most likely a gimmick.”
Hey SD, your new to settlement aren’t you?
Yes – Mitchell was a former board member of SpringBoard Credit Counseling, which, for a brief period of time, shared common office space with the Southland BBB. Could it be that Mitchell is not only being investigated by the National Council of BBBs but the IRS and FBI as well?!
Here is the BBB process I wrote about last July and there is a new version of it out as well.
Seriously?
You are welcome to go and check the BBB ratings of the members of the AACC that I refer people to for debt settlement services.
I refer people to a local bankruptcy attorney so they can meet with an attorney licensed in their state and discuss their situation. The choice of filing or not is between the attorney and the consumer.
State Bar associations don’t regulate debt relief companies.
Is this the same William Mitchell who owns a Consumer Credit Counseling Company that competes with “Debt Settlement” companies….hmmmm
The contracts I see are all legit with licensed attorneys involved. As far as “hefty” fees for service, it depends on what you consider “hefty.” I think that if somebody can pay back a total of 55% of what they owe (including the attorney fees), that that’s a good deal for them. Attorney’s do not work for free, and people are not going to be willing to work for several months without pay. Not to mention that many of the debtors who enter into debt settlement programs are already not paying their bills. So, who’s to say that they aren’t going to skip out and not pay once their debts are settled and the attorneys have done most of the work?
Find me a debt settlement company that does not collect upfront fees for service, and I will discover that it’s most likely a gimmick.
New Era has an A+. I think Superior has an A too. It’s changing. Although, if you charge advanced fees regardless of the exception the BBB will not take you off the “F” rating Structure.
I’m not saying the $200k is right or wrong, but our ADwords account ran on this site (before we realized the leads from this site aren’t good mainly all the horror stories) and the clicks can easily cost 1 company $100 a day from the traffic. That’s 1 company and we’re pretty small. If I had to guess, at least $100,000 a year?
http://ctwatchdog.com/2011/04/…
“most debt settlement contracts signed by the clients are in the name of the Law Firm or attorney” – FALSE
The more accurate statement would be “most [if not all] debt settlement contracts signed by the clients in the name of the Law Firm or attorney are rip offs and possibly fraudulent”
So, you *really* think paying hefty upfront fees is better than a performance based model? If you do, well, welcome to the land of intellectual bankruptcy.
Last time I checked, most debt settlement contracts signed by the clients are in the name of the Law Firm or attorney, unless you go thru one of those companies like Freedom Debt Relief that charges high fees.
But you have to admit that William Mitchell (the disgraced CEO of the Southland BBB who resigned and then un-resigned) is a joke. Frankly, he should be indicted. Steve, why don’t you comb through their 990 filings and see the MILLIONS of $ he has received in the past decade from “his” BBB. Do you think a non-profit head should profiteer in such a manner?!
Hmmmm…yeah – state bar associations only govern the conduct of ATTORNEYS *not* companies like debt settlement operators.
I meant saving them $750 per month, not $600.
“These days I refer people primarily to bankruptcy.‗by Steve Rhode
Steve, are you licensed to practice law and stir people into filing Bankruptcies? You say you get compensated for referring people to file for a Bankruptcy. If the attorneys aren’t paying you directly, who is paying you?
“It is actually not impossible to have anything above an F grade for debt settlement companies.‗by Steve Rhode
Steve, please refer us to a debt settlement company who has an “A†Rating with the BBB…
“If not the BBB what national organization does a consumer go to check out a company?‗by Steve Rhode
Ummm, have you ever heard of the State Bar for Attorneys? The way the California State Bar works is that if somebody had a complaint against them, that complaint will stay with them until their grave. If the complaint has merit, it will say so and list what disciplinary actions were taken. If the complaint does not have merit, it will also say so, but the complaint stays there forever.
I think it’s common sense to know that the State Bar has more credibility then the BBB where anonymous perpetrators are posting false accusations…
You are way off on the #s “I call it like I see it.”
DD- You obviously don’t understand that most debtors have already paid the Big Banks back ABOVE AND BEYOND what they borrowed. For example, if a debtor has $50k in credit card debt at 25% interest rate, an they continue to make the minimum payment (let’s say 3% of CC Balance), it would take them 50 years to pay off. They would pay back the original $50k they borrowed, PLUS an ADDITIONAL $113,000 in interest. The banks jacked interest rates up on good paying clients which put them in a bad position. With a debt settlement program, they would essentially cut their monthly payment in half from $1,500 to $750, saving them $600 per month, and be DEBT FREE in 36 months. Now that Steve Rhodes and other bloggers went on a witch hunt against Debt Settlement companies, many debt settlement candidates are forced into Bankruptcy. This is where Steve Rhode must make some good coin.
I wouldn’t expect you to confirm it Steve, but I run several web properties similar to yours. We both know your ad revenues are into six figures now.
But like I said, good for you, you’re hard work creating content and targeting keywords has built a great following and source of income for you and your family. Good stuff.
Steve,
Do Bankruptcy Attorney’s pay you in any way shape or form directly or indirectly?
Do Credit Counseling Companies pay you in any way, shape, or form directly or indirectly?
I don’t see what these posters are saying about the Adsense revenue. That’s just obvious these days that clicks equal revenue.
Apparently you think I’ve said something unfair about debt settlement. What? Let’s talk about a specific issue and I’m happy to explore it with you.
These days I refer people primarily to bankruptcy. For those that are interested in debt settlement I refer them to an AACC member or Damon Day for an in-depth consultation.
I don’t get fees from attorneys.
It is actually not impossible to have anything above an F grade for debt settlement companies. There are companies now that have A ratings. If your company has an F rating you should contact your local BBB and ask for the information on the new review process for debt settlement companies in order to have your grade reviewed.
If not the BBB what national organization does a consumer go to check out a company?
The Hamas thing is very old news by now. It was always a joke and the BBB was setup on that one.
That is no where near the ad revenue this site generates and it’s not even in the same side of the world.
And no, I’m paying my own way to speak at the conference. Nobody is picking up the tab.
Nobody works for free, even Steve needs to earn a living.
Do you think his agenda is to help people for free? He is capitalizing on internet search traffic on debt relief keywords. He is paid by referral and by Google Adsense.
My best guess by his Alexa reach here: http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/… is he is this website is generating about $225,000 in ad revenue per year from Google ads alone. Hardly chump change…
Who knows what his referral income from bankruptcy, credit counselling et al account for. He is also a speaker at the upcoming TASC debt settlement conference in April; he is probably paid for that appearance too.
Love him or hate him, either way you slice it, I think entrepreneurship is great, good for Steve for capitalizing on an opportunity. It may cost some people “face” or whatever you want to call it, but it is what it is.
Sduran,
It’s “steer clients” Can you tell me why paying back what you owe in full is wrong? Would you lend me 50 grand so I can pay you back 25 grand in 4 years? What Debt Settlement Company did you work for with upfront fees?
lol…Terrible comment.
Seeing the same questions about the ads and referrals is getting old.
Great job blowing the lid off this BREAKING NEWS story (about 5 months late) about the Hamas Group BBB rating.
I wish there was a “dislike” button.
“I am currently sending CREDIT COUNSELING requests to Cambridge Credit Counseling. THEY DO GIVE ME SOME COMPENSATION EACH MONTH to help support the work of this site”—by Steve Rhode
When people complete a request to find a local bankruptcy attorney I RECEIVE SOME COMPENSATION FROM AN ATTORNEY REFERRAL SERVICE,”—by Steve Rhode
This explains your vicious agenda against the Debt Settlement Industry. You would rather stir clients into a Consumer Credit Counseling program, even though their payment would be twice as high as it would normally be in a “debt settlement” program, and the consumer would pay about twice as much in total payments in a “consumer credit counseling” program as they would with a “debt settlement program.” Do you think the Big Banks would rather have a client enroll into a “Credit Counseling” program OR a “Debt Settlement” program? The Big Banks would rather have the consumer PAY AS MUCH AS THEY can by entering a “Consumer Credit Counseling” program. So who do you think wins here between the every day Americans and the Big Banks??? Of course the Big Banks win when the debtor enrolls into a “Consumer Credit” counseling program.
Steve, you say that you are an advocate for the people, but you are making money by stirring them into a “Consumer Credit Counseling” programs in which the consumer will pay back EVERY SINGLE DIME they borrowed, despite them getting reamed with 30% Interest Rates the Banks charged. You are siding with the banks for your own personal gain.
And you are also getting referral fees from Attorneys? Is that legal? You always talk about how fee splitting is illegal, ect, but you admit that you get compensated by referring clients to a Bankruptcy Attorney.
You always talk about the ratings of Debt Settlement Companies or Loan Modification Companies on Better Business Bureau. However, it’s nearly impossible to have any rating above an F if you are a debt settlement or a loan modification company. The BBB is in bed with the BIG BANKS, and the BIG BANKS HATE when homeowners/debtors pay an attorney to help them fight. Why do you think the BIG BANKS have been telling homeowners for the past few years that “They should not have to pay any money to get help.” Many homeowners listened to the Big Banks, tried to get loan modifications by themselves without professional help, and the got FORECLOSED on. Another point is that BIG BANKS, the BBB and Credit Counseling Companies are in bed with each other and that’s how they get their high ratings. The BBB is is only a private company that extorts money from business.
Did you know that the Terrorist Group Hamas had an “A” Rating with the BBB?
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/…
Sduran165
The Greedy Settlement Companies ruined the “viable?” debt settlement industry. You can only blame yourself.
Interesting assumption but incorrect. I lay everything out openly in the site terms. Feel free to visit them for details.
It’s too bad Obama and Big Government ruined the once viable “debt settlement” option for consumers. Now, consumers are forced to continue paying the Banks up the ying-yang with high interest rates, OR a Consumer Credit Counseling program which will not cut their balances down, their payments will be close to what they couldn’t afford before, and it stays on their credit report up to 7 years which looks almost as bad as a Bankruptcy in the eyes of banks.
So, who is the real winner here if the consumers no longer can get help with a “debt settlement program?” Is it the consumer, OR is it the Big Banks? Well, of course the answer is the Big Banks.
Steve, I’ve been reading your blogs for close to a year now, and I’m wondering how you make money if you are blogging all day…I truly think you are paid by the Big Banks, but pretend like you care about the consumer…
It’s too bad Obama and Big Government ruined the once viable “debt settlement” option for consumers. Now, consumers are forced to continue paying the Banks up the ying-yang with high interest rates, OR a Consumer Credit Counseling program which will not cut their balances down, their payments will be close to what they couldn’t afford before, and it stays on their credit report up to 7 years which looks almost as bad as a Bankruptcy in the eyes of banks.
So, who is the real winner here if the consumers no longer can get help with a “debt settlement program?” Is it the consumer, OR is it the Big Banks? Well, of course the answer is the Big Banks.
Steve, I’ve been reading your blogs for close to a year now, and I’m wondering how you make money if you are blogging all day…I truly think you are paid by the Big Banks, but pretend like you care about the consumer…
Interesting assumption but incorrect. I lay everything out openly in the site terms. Feel free to visit them for details.
Sduran165
The Greedy Settlement Companies ruined the “viable?” debt settlement industry. You can only blame yourself.
“I am currently sending CREDIT COUNSELING requests to Cambridge Credit Counseling. THEY DO GIVE ME SOME COMPENSATION EACH MONTH to help support the work of this site”—by Steve Rhode
When people complete a request to find a local bankruptcy attorney I RECEIVE SOME COMPENSATION FROM AN ATTORNEY REFERRAL SERVICE,”—by Steve Rhode
This explains your vicious agenda against the Debt Settlement Industry. You would rather stir clients into a Consumer Credit Counseling program, even though their payment would be twice as high as it would normally be in a “debt settlement” program, and the consumer would pay about twice as much in total payments in a “consumer credit counseling” program as they would with a “debt settlement program.” Do you think the Big Banks would rather have a client enroll into a “Credit Counseling” program OR a “Debt Settlement” program? The Big Banks would rather have the consumer PAY AS MUCH AS THEY can by entering a “Consumer Credit Counseling” program. So who do you think wins here between the every day Americans and the Big Banks??? Of course the Big Banks win when the debtor enrolls into a “Consumer Credit” counseling program.
Steve, you say that you are an advocate for the people, but you are making money by stirring them into a “Consumer Credit Counseling” programs in which the consumer will pay back EVERY SINGLE DIME they borrowed, despite them getting reamed with 30% Interest Rates the Banks charged. You are siding with the banks for your own personal gain.
And you are also getting referral fees from Attorneys? Is that legal? You always talk about how fee splitting is illegal, ect, but you admit that you get compensated by referring clients to a Bankruptcy Attorney.
You always talk about the ratings of Debt Settlement Companies or Loan Modification Companies on Better Business Bureau. However, it’s nearly impossible to have any rating above an F if you are a debt settlement or a loan modification company. The BBB is in bed with the BIG BANKS, and the BIG BANKS HATE when homeowners/debtors pay an attorney to help them fight. Why do you think the BIG BANKS have been telling homeowners for the past few years that “They should not have to pay any money to get help.” Many homeowners listened to the Big Banks, tried to get loan modifications by themselves without professional help, and the got FORECLOSED on. Another point is that BIG BANKS, the BBB and Credit Counseling Companies are in bed with each other and that’s how they get their high ratings. The BBB is is only a private company that extorts money from business.
Did you know that the Terrorist Group Hamas had an “A” Rating with the BBB?
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/video/hamas-rating-bbb-12188207
lol…Terrible comment.
Seeing the same questions about the ads and referrals is getting old.
Great job blowing the lid off this BREAKING NEWS story (about 5 months late) about the Hamas Group BBB rating.
I wish there was a “dislike” button.
Sduran,
It’s “steer clients” Can you tell me why paying back what you owe in full is wrong? Would you lend me 50 grand so I can pay you back 25 grand in 4 years? What Debt Settlement Company did you work for with upfront fees?
DD- You obviously don’t understand that most debtors have already paid the Big Banks back ABOVE AND BEYOND what they borrowed. For example, if a debtor has $50k in credit card debt at 25% interest rate, an they continue to make the minimum payment (let’s say 3% of CC Balance), it would take them 50 years to pay off. They would pay back the original $50k they borrowed, PLUS an ADDITIONAL $113,000 in interest. The banks jacked interest rates up on good paying clients which put them in a bad position. With a debt settlement program, they would essentially cut their monthly payment in half from $1,500 to $750, saving them $600 per month, and be DEBT FREE in 36 months. Now that Steve Rhodes and other bloggers went on a witch hunt against Debt Settlement companies, many debt settlement candidates are forced into Bankruptcy. This is where Steve Rhode must make some good coin.
I meant saving them $750 per month, not $600.
You still have not identified a story you feel I was unfair to debt settlement. You keep making broad statements that I’ve been unfair or on a witch hunt for debt settlement. Point to an example so we can discuss it.
Sduran,
You commented “With a debt settlement program, they would essentially cut their monthly payment in half from $1,500 to $750, saving them $600 per month, and be DEBT FREE in 36 months.”
In theory and promotion that is how debt settlement has been sold. In practice it has not worked out well.
Debt settlement candidates are by their very nature equal candidates for bankruptcy. Always have been. There is no force to it, just a fact given their deteriorating financial situation. Some choose to try to avoid BK by attempting settlement, some don’t. Many file BK who could have avoided it, but they still got the relief they needed. Conversely, many attempt debt settlement who would have been better off filing BK.
Michael, I meant saving $750, not $650. I would always advice people of their options of Bankruptcy and tell them to talk to an attorney about that. Most of the people do not want to go thru a Bankruptcy if they don’t have to.
Another Option for the consumer might be Debt Consolidation which is a loan to pay off their outstanding credit card balances. The problem is that most have beat up credit and don’t qualify for a loan. Also, they would just be robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Another Option is Consumer Credit Counseling which only reduces the interest rates on the credit cards, but the payment stays close to the same as their current payments, and most cannot afford it. Plus Credit Counseling stays on the consumer’s Credit Report for several years and looks almost as bad as a Bankruptcy. Credit Counseling is probably the worst options for any consumer to take.
Then there’s Debt Settlement where licensed attorneys communicate with their creditors and collectors they are dealing with, and negotiate their debts down to about 40%-60% of what they owe. Even if the attorney’s charge an additional 15%, the consumer is only paying a total of about 55% of what they owe, their payment would be about half of what they are currently paying, and they can get out of debt is 36 months.
So, why would anybody in their right mind choose to Credit Counseling Program over a Debt Settlement Program? It doesn’t make financial sense.
You make good points.
Consumers should get informed about all 3 options and choose the one that makes the most sense.
I am finishing up an article for publishing today that speaks to all 3 of the options and the math generally associated with each.
I will link it here when it goes live.
Oh the irony. Just out today a press release from a debt settlement company, Prestige Financial Solutions, The Debt Settlement Industry Is Dead! The release supports the FTC changes and says their business is growing. They are not an attorney based company.
QUOTE:
“””””***Now that Steve Rhodes and other bloggers went on a witch hunt against Debt Settlement companies, many debt settlement candidates are forced into Bankruptcy. This is where Steve Rhode must make some good coin.***””””””
Well, since the “front Fee” model had a success rate LESS than 10%, while the performance based model was 70%, wouldn’t you agree that MOST of those debt settlement candidates WERE MORE SUITED FOR BK IN THE FIRST PLACE!?!??
But great sales guys like you could ONLY make money putting square pegs into round holes, cancelling clients if they missed a payment & keeping all that yummy “no work” fee, paying sales affiliate companies 70-90% of the fee charged on every new client…. Sound familiar? It should- It’s not only what you used to do, but what you are doing now by using an attorney’s name.
Your company charging extra for litigation services too?
Nobody works for free, even Steve needs to earn a living.
Do you think his agenda is to help people for free? He is capitalizing on internet search traffic on debt relief keywords. He is paid by referral and by Google Adsense.
My best guess by his Alexa reach here: http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/getoutofdebt.org# is he is this website is generating about $225,000 in ad revenue per year from Google ads alone. Hardly chump change…
Who knows what his referral income from bankruptcy, credit counselling et al account for. He is also a speaker at the upcoming TASC debt settlement conference in April; he is probably paid for that appearance too.
Love him or hate him, either way you slice it, I think entrepreneurship is great, good for Steve for capitalizing on an opportunity. It may cost some people “face” or whatever you want to call it, but it is what it is.
That is no where near the ad revenue this site generates and it’s not even in the same side of the world.
And no, I’m paying my own way to speak at the conference. Nobody is picking up the tab.
I wouldn’t expect you to confirm it Steve, but I run several web properties similar to yours. We both know your ad revenues are into six figures now.
But like I said, good for you, you’re hard work creating content and targeting keywords has built a great following and source of income for you and your family. Good stuff.
You are way off on the #s “I call it like I see it.”
I’m not saying the $200k is right or wrong, but our ADwords account ran on this site (before we realized the leads from this site aren’t good mainly all the horror stories) and the clicks can easily cost 1 company $100 a day from the traffic. That’s 1 company and we’re pretty small. If I had to guess, at least $100,000 a year?
Exactly, Steve is creating content (fear) in exchange for ad revenue exceeding six figures. Isn’t that a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black?
How am I creating fear? Point me to a story that is not true and let’s talk specifics.
I know for a fact- the BK referrals pay $15….
The referral network is totalbankruptcy.com. Site reader feedback has been very good and people are impressed how quickly they are contacted. I’ve had a relationship with them for years and would encourage anyone looking for a similar referral resource to check them out.
Apparently you think I’ve said something unfair about debt settlement. What? Let’s talk about a specific issue and I’m happy to explore it with you.
These days I refer people primarily to bankruptcy. For those that are interested in debt settlement I refer them to an AACC member or Damon Day for an in-depth consultation.
I don’t get fees from attorneys.
It is actually not impossible to have anything above an F grade for debt settlement companies. There are companies now that have A ratings. If your company has an F rating you should contact your local BBB and ask for the information on the new review process for debt settlement companies in order to have your grade reviewed.
If not the BBB what national organization does a consumer go to check out a company?
The Hamas thing is very old news by now. It was always a joke and the BBB was setup on that one.
Steve,
Do Bankruptcy Attorney’s pay you in any way shape or form directly or indirectly?
Do Credit Counseling Companies pay you in any way, shape, or form directly or indirectly?
I don’t see what these posters are saying about the Adsense revenue. That’s just obvious these days that clicks equal revenue.
I talk about all the relationships this site has in an open and transparent way in the site terms.
“These days I refer people primarily to bankruptcy.”—by Steve Rhode
Steve, are you licensed to practice law and stir people into filing Bankruptcies? You say you get compensated for referring people to file for a Bankruptcy. If the attorneys aren’t paying you directly, who is paying you?
“It is actually not impossible to have anything above an F grade for debt settlement companies.”—by Steve Rhode
Steve, please refer us to a debt settlement company who has an “A” Rating with the BBB…
“If not the BBB what national organization does a consumer go to check out a company?”—by Steve Rhode
Ummm, have you ever heard of the State Bar for Attorneys? The way the California State Bar works is that if somebody had a complaint against them, that complaint will stay with them until their grave. If the complaint has merit, it will say so and list what disciplinary actions were taken. If the complaint does not have merit, it will also say so, but the complaint stays there forever.
I think it’s common sense to know that the State Bar has more credibility then the BBB where anonymous perpetrators are posting false accusations…
Hmmmm…yeah – state bar associations only govern the conduct of ATTORNEYS *not* companies like debt settlement operators.
Last time I checked, most debt settlement contracts signed by the clients are in the name of the Law Firm or attorney, unless you go thru one of those companies like Freedom Debt Relief that charges high fees.
“most debt settlement contracts signed by the clients are in the name of the Law Firm or attorney” – FALSE
The more accurate statement would be “most [if not all] debt settlement contracts signed by the clients in the name of the Law Firm or attorney are rip offs and possibly fraudulent”
So, you *really* think paying hefty upfront fees is better than a performance based model? If you do, well, welcome to the land of intellectual bankruptcy.
The contracts I see are all legit with licensed attorneys involved. As far as “hefty” fees for service, it depends on what you consider “hefty.” I think that if somebody can pay back a total of 55% of what they owe (including the attorney fees), that that’s a good deal for them. Attorney’s do not work for free, and people are not going to be willing to work for several months without pay. Not to mention that many of the debtors who enter into debt settlement programs are already not paying their bills. So, who’s to say that they aren’t going to skip out and not pay once their debts are settled and the attorneys have done most of the work?
Find me a debt settlement company that does not collect upfront fees for service, and I will discover that it’s most likely a gimmick.
Seriously?
“Find me a debt settlement company that does not collect upfront fees for service, and I will discover that it’s most likely a gimmick.”
Hey SD, your new to settlement aren’t you?
haha we should stop right here. I work for a debt settlement company… we don’t charge a dime until settlement. AND our fee is a % of the savings. BTW, newbie… If you knew anything about Global, they won’t allow fees to be released early without the settlement being paid directly from global.
From what others are sharing with me, settlements under the performance model are happening much faster than they were under the advanced fee model. Is that what you are seeing/hearing as well?
The other thing I’m observing is the complaints against companies has slowed significantly against performance fee companies. Attorney model advanced fee complaints are accelerating.
Since this article was about search demand, have you noticed a slow down in incoming calls or requests?
I’m curious to know what company you work for? You must not work with licensed attorneys, because I have never heard of an attorney who will work for six months without getting paid. Also, what percentage of the savings does your company charge the consumer?
Sduran,
Attorneys are about the only carve out in new federal laws that allow them to still charge advance fees for providing a direct debt settlement service. This fact has led many non attorney industry participants to continue with business as usual by partnering with attorneys. Regulators see that the recognized abuses in this space that are so problematic are able to continue through this work around.
Until the abuse of the attorney carve out abates, there will be many negative posts regarding attorney sponsored and or performed debt settlement services. When the abuse does diminish I will join you in encouraging consumers seek out attorneys local to them when seeking debt settlement services, but only if a marketer is not getting paid high commissions to push them to the attorney.
If the the state bar want to help things get back on track by enforcing advertising and fee split ethics rules, it would be helpful.
New Era has an A+. I think Superior has an A too. It’s changing. Although, if you charge advanced fees regardless of the exception the BBB will not take you off the “F” rating Structure.
Here is the BBB process I wrote about last July and there is a new version of it out as well.
You are welcome to go and check the BBB ratings of the members of the AACC that I refer people to for debt settlement services.
I refer people to a local bankruptcy attorney so they can meet with an attorney licensed in their state and discuss their situation. The choice of filing or not is between the attorney and the consumer.
State Bar associations don’t regulate debt relief companies.
AACC…You mean American Association of Credit Counselors that was spear headed by Steve Rhode and has only been in existence for only a few months…hahaha Sounds like a gimmick, but I’m sure you are compensated handsomely if a debtor decides to use one of the few companies that have decided to join. Let’s take a look at the members of AACC I’ve found:
Active Debt Solutions—No Rating with the BBB. Probably a brand new company.
Cambridge Credit Counseling Corporation—Has an “A+” most likely, because it doesn’t show they do “debt settlement” on the BBB website and they most likely only offer Credit Counseling.
Care One Services—Has 76 COMPLAINTS against them, and still have an “A” Rating with the BBB…It appears that they do NOT offer any “Debt Settlement” program which could explain the “A” Rating.
CESI Debt Solutions—Has 39 COMPLAINTS in 3 years and still an “A+” Rating with the BBB, but they do not appear to offer a “Debt Settlement” Program, so that could explain it.
Consumer Recovery Network charges $645 upfront. Here is their fee schedule for some educational material:
http://consumerrecoverynetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/CRN-Member-Enrollment.pdf
They have been in business for a little over one year, and have an “A” Rating with the BBB. However, look at their description says on the BBB:
Description-This company offers consumers who are struggling with debt, education in the form of audio CD’s and workbooks. The materials are supplemented by assigning a counselor to work one on one with each of its members. Full server debt mediation to its members at no up front fees and often no fee depending on the state of residency.
Debt Solutions Network LLC- No rating with the BBB. I don’t even think they have a company website, since I couldn’t find one.
New Era Debt Solutions- has an “A” Rating with the BBB, but they apparently did NOT inform the BBB that they are doing debt settlement.
Their BBB description says: Nature of Business: This company offers financial services, investments, insurance, loans and debt elimination and a debt elimination business opportunity.
None of these companies seem to be Attorney Based who do NOT have to answer to the State Bar….hmmmm Sounds a little fishy to me that you would be steering desperate borrowers to use one of these companies….just sayin’
You missed attorney based Oak View Law Group with a B- BBB rating.
So what’s the name of the company you work for. Let’s check them out.
Only ONE of the members of the AACC is attorney based? That throws up a big Red Flag. Consumers should beware that companies who are not attorney based do not have to answer to the State Bar. Once they get shut down, all they have to do is open up another company across the street under a different name. This happens all the time. However, attorneys are held to a higher standard and put their licenses in jeopardy if they don’t do things right. Steve, it appears that the companies are only Credit Counseling Companies who chose to join the AACC group that you helped create. So, you have been “warning” the consumers about the “debt settlement” companies out there, and then stirring them to work with one of the Credit Counseling companies in your AACC network, or leading them to a Bankruptcy attorney who then has a “referral service” pay you commission…hmmm
I would personally like to see NACA member attorneys involved in the AACC as they maintain practices exclusive to consumer protection.
I would also like to see NACBA get involved too.
I think the AACC is a great place for attorney membership. I would like to see more of them involved. Do you have some recommendations you can make?
Michael, wow! Are you serious about NACA? LMFAO!! Do you know how many people I’ve talked to who went to NACA to get “free” help for a loan modification, and then got foreclosed on? Out of the hundreds of thousands of people who go to NACA for help, how many do you think actually got a successful loan modification? Not very many. Who do you think pays NACA? Taxpayers and hint hint (the Banks)?
Not sure we are talking about the same group. The NACA I am referring to is an association of consumer advocate attorneys. I am not aware that NACA receives direct referrals, let alone hundreds of thousands of them.
I find it unlikely in the extreme that NACA receives money from banks. Their member attorneys are generally found to provide representation in protecting consumers from the financial services industry at large.
I also find it unlikely that NACA receives taxpayer money.
Referral commission to BK is $15.
I also heard that Steve is selling off leads to Cambridge Credit Counseling Corporation who was sued by the state of Illinois for charging predatory fees…You already admitted that Cambridge pays you, but why would you refer people to a company who has a reputation for charging higher upfront fees then permitted?
Do you do any research or just make it up as you go? That was in 2005 before the new Cambridge was born.
To better understand Cambridge Credit Counseling and why I recommend then you should read this and listen to the interviews on the history.
As far as I’m aware they are the first credit counseling group to publish their performance numbers. Very impressive as well.
Still no openness and transparency from you though.
Hi Sduran,
Consumer Recovery Network has been in operation since 2006, not just a year as your post implies.
You call the AACC a gimmick. It is not. There are many companies interested in membership. Its membership is limited on purpose at this time.
You appear to be very opinionated about attorneys being the best and most regulated to offer debt settlement services. This would lead me to believe you are one, or work and promote for one.
Attorneys offering debt settlement have been found to be some of the most problematic in the industry. Were that not the case, I would have an easier time agreeing with you.
The assorted state bar organizations have done far less to regulate the debt relief space than your comments imply they do, or would. State authorities have been the ones to step up and knock down the bad actors with the bar only taking disciplinary action after the fact.
Oops…My bad. I meant to say that this company has only been a member with the BBB for about a year. If the business was started in 2006, then why was barely incorporated in 2008? Straight from the BBB website:
BBB file opened: March 02, 2009
Business started: 04/06/2006
Business incorporated: 07/11/2008 in ID
Original incorporation was in 2006. Situs transferred in 08.
Active Debt Solutions- Going on its 4th year as one of maybe 10 companies that NEVER charged up front settlement fee- always performance based. The SEFloridaBBB stinks- We had an A+ but thanks to companies like yours, the BBB here took all DS ratings down. They have offered to re examine ours- We have sent in our paperwork twice. We gave up. The BBB does not drive our business.
But you have to admit that William Mitchell (the disgraced CEO of the Southland BBB who resigned and then un-resigned) is a joke. Frankly, he should be indicted. Steve, why don’t you comb through their 990 filings and see the MILLIONS of $ he has received in the past decade from “his” BBB. Do you think a non-profit head should profiteer in such a manner?!
Is this the same William Mitchell who owns a Consumer Credit Counseling Company that competes with “Debt Settlement” companies….hmmmm
Yes – Mitchell was a former board member of SpringBoard Credit Counseling, which, for a brief period of time, shared common office space with the Southland BBB. Could it be that Mitchell is not only being investigated by the National Council of BBBs but the IRS and FBI as well?!
http://ctwatchdog.com/2011/04/03/nytimes-latest-to-probe-better-business-bureaus-shady-behavior-incompetence
Well, how is it that Care One Credit (one of the companies you endorse) has 76 COMPLAINTS and still has an “A” Rating with the Better Business Bureau, and there are legit companies with 10 complaints which have all been resolved, but have an “F” Rating with the BBB.
“Mitchell was a former board member of SpringBoard Credit Counseling, which, for a brief period of time, shared common office space with the Southland BBB. Could it be that Mitchell is not only being investigated by the National Council of BBBs but the IRS and FBI as well?!”—by Anon|nonA
Steve, I believe you are preying on desperate debtors by scaring them away from legitimate debt settlement programs and stirring them into your Micky Mouse Credit Counseling companies for your own personal gain. I do not believe you are a watch dog for the consumers, but are preying on the many gullible consumers for your personal gain. ONLY ONE of the Debt Settlement Companies you endorse is ATTORNEY BASED which is a HUGE RED FLAG….just sayin’
Sduran,
If there are so many attorneys offering debt settlement in observance of all state and federal guidelines who also observe all bar ethics, advertising and fee splitting rules, please reply with a list of who they are. That would be a fantastic tool for consumers to speak with a local attorney.
I would like to know what attorneys are splitting fees with Steve Rhode, directly or indirectly…so why don’t you ask him for a list…
As I have said repeatedly now to you, all of my relationships are openly and transparently spelled out in the site terms. I don’t know who the local attorneys are. I do provide the names of a few local attorneys I like on the bankruptcy page and I receive nothing from them.
What I find interesting is you come and attack but you don’t answer any of my questions.
You accused me of being paid by “big banks” which is not true, and I answered that.
You said I had launched a “vicious agenda against the debt settlement industry” but when I asked you to point out a specific example and let’s talk about it, you didn’t.
You said “Now that Steve Rhodes and other bloggers went on a witch hunt against Debt Settlement companies, many debt settlement candidates are forced into Bankruptcy,” but when I asked for examples of my witch hunt you didn’t provide any.
You asked me to refer you to debt settlement companies that have A rating and I did that and you attacked them.
I asked you what company you worked for but you didn’t respond, which I find interesting. You seem to be demanding openness and transparency from others but yet you refuse to be open and transparent.
Mmmmmmmm…. I love that “New To The Industry” smell…
Sduran,
Regulators did not kill debt settlement. Debt settlement killed debt settlement.
The settlement option is of course not dead, its just that operational realities have changed. These changes caused some to leave the industry, but it is still here and in an even more viable way for those who need it.
Yes, it’s still alive and I’m still serving clients. I can offer Credit Counseling, but it doesn’t make sense for most people. In fact, I looking at the #s right now and if somebody has $49,336 in debt, I can help them get enrolled into a 40 month Debt Settlement Program in which their payment will only be $696 per month. They would pay a total of $27k including fees. On a 36 month program, their payment goes up to $769 and they will pay a total of $26,936 including all fees…That’s not a bad deal…I highly doubt any of the companies Steve Rhode recommended can do that…just sayin’
I can only speak for CRN and we do not underwrite the type of file outlined in your comment.
Interesting example. Let’s talk about this case.
But before any of us can recommend a solution we first need to know some basic information. Tell us about the client’s situation.
It’s like talking to a wall Michael, he either doesn’t get it or he is trying to justify still charging his fees upfront. Sduran165 – I sure hope those estimates are from your past performances; you’re most likely violating FTC rules. Have you had anyone complete your program to make those claims or are you just using the upfront fee model’s calculator…psst, those calculators have been broken for years…. because without knowing who the creditors are or taking lawsuits into consideration it’s impossible and misleading to make those claims.
Your comments show your inexperience and it may have been a better idea to spend more time reading Steve’s articles and posts prior to bashing his cause. C’mon, the guy is a big teddy bear and if you took the time to read through the site you would see he genuinely tries to help consumers. Journalists need to make a living too, do you settle debt for free?
By the way….Active Debt has been incorporated since 2008 and only charge a % of saving at settlement.
Question: How do you charge your fees and what is the name of your company?
I’d be glad to share any additional info about my program and my company, I have nothing to hide…do you ?
Angelo Anzalone
Active Debt Solutions
an****@*********bt.com
Steve- No more ripping people off for loan mods? Once CA changed their laws? NOW you’re a debt settlement expert?
That makes no sense. Can you rephrase your question? I’ve never done loan mods.
Not you Steve- “Steve Duran”. Sorry for the confusion.
Is that who Sduran165 is? What say you Sduran165. Are you the Steve Duran that was with Homefield Financial?
hahaha!! What makes you think I’m him? I like the way you throw out people’s names out there…just sayin’
The email address. And I didn’t through the name out there first, another commenter did. I’m just asking if it is true. Is it?
Do you hear that? That’s the sound of Sduran165 walking away with his tail between his legs.
Now go home and get your shine box….
My email address is not Steve Duran, and you should know that from when I registered to post on this page. What you think my name is really not important. I did not come here to solicit business or endorse any of the lawyers I work with. I just wanted to point out to you that you have been using scare tactics and smear campaigns against many legitimate debt settlement companies for your own personal gain. You already said that you get compensated by the Consumer Credit Counseling companies you refer clients to. You also said you get compensated when you refer people to a Bankruptcy attorney for a Bankruptcy. You have been scaring people away from “debt settlement” for at least the past year, so that you can refer them into Credit Counseling or Bankruptcy. I know you felt relieved after your personal Bankruptcy (I watched your youtube video), but Bankruptcy is not for everybody, and for many “debt settlement” is a viable option. The problem is that you talk crap on almost ALL debt settlement companies out there unless you have a back door relationship with them. There are some bad debt settlement companies out there, and there are some good ones. You however bash any company that is not in bed with you.
For the past year with consumers would do a google search on “debt settlement,” they get bombarded with negative reviews from your site. You are not some financial guru who has any experience in financial services that I know of, but the gullible consumers and the “Joe Six-packs” out there don’t know that. Therefore, they read your blog and decide to do a Bankruptcy instead of a “debt settlement” program that would have helped them prevent Bankruptcy.
Many people (myself included), believe you intentionally and maliciously crashed people’s legitimate debt settlement businesses, and scared people into filing unnecessary Bankruptcies that could have been avoided.
Thanks to you and your negative campaigning, many legitimate debt settlement companies have decided to shut down. I stopped by my friend’s office the other day who had 5 debt settlement consultants. Between their five people, they were enrolling over $5million in debt per month. When I stopped by, I was surprised to find out that they were no longer doing debt settlement. The point is that you and your smear campaigns have put so much of a burden on the legitimate debt settlement companies, that it’s not worth it for them to continue helping people. I don’t have to pay $6k per month for office space, so I’m in a different position then him, but I wish you would stop pretending to be a consumer advocate when you are only helping the Big Banks by stirring people into Credit Counseling or stirring them into Bankruptcy.
You are not a financial GURU, but “Joe-Six-pack” still eats if up like a fat boy does cake…
“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt” – Abraham Lincoln.
Steve has only come out against Debt Settlement companies that charge fees upfront and attorney models. If you consider either of those models legit then you are part of the problem and not part of the solution. Steve has never, ever expressed that Debt Settlement is bad and to stay away.
No, your email address is not Steve Duran but if you do a simple Google search for sduran165 the top listings are for a Steve Duran with a similar email address. sd*******@*ol.com. I didn’t say you were, another commenter made that statement. I just asked you if you were. And you’ve never denied that.While you say you didn’t come here to solicit business or endorse any lawyers you work with, you did apparently come here to attack. I think in light of all your claims and assertions, which have not proven to be true, a request who you work for is not unwarranted and is open and transparent so we can compare what you are representing versus what you are claiming I have said unfairly. That is unless you feel there is something to hide.You continue to make wild and unsubstantiated claims about backdoor deals or telling people to always avoid debt settlement when that is absolutely not the case. Just click on any debt settlement link in any article that uses that phrase and it will take you to debt settlement help. In fact the site even has a debt settlement forum section to assist people.I’ve asked you repeatedly to point out a story you felt was unfair or give me a specific example to backup your claims. You haven’t. Why not? I’ve asked you to do that so we can talk specifics but yet you continue to regurgitate the same broad statements and incorrect facts which appears to be the same issue you accuse me of.If you think myself or this site is responsible for the years of work by the FTC in crafting the TSR or the refusal of the debt settlement trade associations to embrace UDMSA way back in 2007-2008, then you my friend are just flat out wrong.It doesn’t bother me that you obviously hate me. I don’t give a crap about that. What bothers me is that you are so grossly uninformed about the industry at large and the chain of events that led to the FTC TSR and the hurt that is coming for attorney model firms. I’m trying to help you become better informed. That’s why I ask you, time and time again, for a specific example of something so we can talk specifics.You claim my “smear” campaigns put the hurt on debt settlement and that’s what is causing companies to close. There is certainly another side to that story. The reality is the lack of measurable performance by many debt settlement companies, the collection of advanced fees and not delivering the product, the documented lies that were told to consumers and the refusal of companies to make refunds is what led to the crackdown.Do you honestly think if I said all red apples should be banned that the FTC and states would jump and do that? I challenge you to find a body of work here that leads a charge against something that does not exist. This site reports on the issues at hand and the claims made.If a company feels they can’t deliver services under a model where they are paid for real performance, that’s not an issue I created, that’s because the company has a failed business model. I’ve shown you performance based companies that have good BBB ratings and have been delivering performance based services for years. It can be done.Of all your comments the one that still has me the most intrigued is this one. In response I said, “Interesting example. Let’s talk about this case. But before any of us can recommend a solution we first need to know some basic information. Tell us about the client’s situation.” You didn’t bother. Let’s talk specifics. Why is that example a good candidate for debt settlement?And if you think that a debt management plan should not be considered in certain situations then why is TASC training member companies to use DMPs as part of a hybrid model? Why would TASC be steering people towards a DMP, like I do sometimes? Do I now have secret powers over TASC members?You’d be a much wiser person if you asked the collective talent here for advice and help than continue to talk about things you are not very informed about.One last thing. If my statements led to the collapse of the debt settlement industry, then why would search traffic be down for both debt settlement and credit counseling. That what this article was about. You would think the trends in consumers searching for debt relief help would be increasing for credit counseling while decreasing for debt settlement, but that’s not what’s actually happening. The reason companies are dying is because there is less demand for debt settlement services in general and they can’t continue profiteering under business models that are no longer legal.
Oh, I see…You did a search…I also ran a search, and this looks like the guy you are looking for:
http://www.facebook.com/sduran165 so why don’t you confront him. As far as your response, I will get to it later. Gotta get back to work helping people.
Weird… It looks exactly like you! lol
Still, no denial tho…
Sigh…..
Steve, the bottom line is that you are using scare tactics to lure consumers into using the “non-profit” *cough* Credit Counseling Companies you are compensated by. You are also encouraging gullible debtors to sign up with NON-ATTORNEY debt settlement companies who will not charge ANY upfront fees which is not true.
The question for the consumer should be simple…”Mrs. Jones, do you want to work with a NON-ATTORNEY BASED company who can get shut down and then just open up across the street under a different name?” OR, “Would you rather work with an attorney who is licensed in your state, governed by the State Bar, and can lose his/her license to practice law if they don’t perform?” I personally would prefer to have a signed contract from an attorney verses “ABC Debt Settlement.” Attorneys DO Not work without getting paid….Plain and Simple. If you get a DUI, you would hire an attorney who specializes in that field. Attorneys don’t say, “You can pay me once the case is settled.” If an attorney screws anyone over, their reputation will be ruined and it could cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars or more. If your “Tom, Dick, and Harry” NON-ATTORNEY based company screws a consumer over and gets shut down, all they have to do is open up a different corporation under a different name. They do not face the possibility of losing their license to practice law they worked 20 years to obtain.
You are only promoting Credit Counseling and Debt Settlement Companies who compensate you, which is very unfair for the consumers who are facing a financial hardship.
On a different note, I think it was VERY unprofessional of you to post someone’s email address on your blog for all the bots to pick up. I think you are only trying to get rich by scaring desperate borrowers into using the companies you endorse.
That is certainly one way to look at it, but it bears no resemblance to the truth. The number of referrals is very low because the number of people best suited for a credit counseling solution right now is low. The overwhelming vast majority of readers come to read and learn.
What email address? If you mean the sd*******@*ol.com I found it from Google. It’s already online.
You say I’m encouraging consumers to signup with non-attorny companies but that’s not true as well. There is an attorney backed model with the AACC, which is where I direct consumers for debt settlement help when they are looking for a company to work with.
You seem to have the impression that attorney backed companies are somehow cleaner and safer. Yet the two largest implosions in the past couple of years that hurt the largest number of consumers were attorney based debt settlement companies. Are you familiar with Allegro Law and Hess Kennedy? The attorneys behind those operations were disbarred and the companies shutdown by the respective states.
The irony here is that I say to consumers here are all the options and let’s talk about what is right for your situation. You only seem to say that attorney backed debt settlement is the option of choice. Who’s steering?
You know, all you have done is attack and you’ve yet to let us compare your solution. So who is it that you are selling?
Hey Duran Duran,
Maybe you and your flock of seagulls wannabe settlement guru attorney bar card borrowing hungry like the wolf listening crew should read this article:
https://getoutofdebt.org/27220/how-settlement-companies-can-maximize-income-and-have-happier-clients-by-teaching-people-how-to-settle-their-own-debts
Keep throwing those shadow box punches while dancing to the song reflex. You’ll get in shape.
I did look at mass joinder but there isn’t enough volume to report on yet.
It would be interesting to check those stats against Tax Sett & Sue your bank, mass joinder…. If there’s a meteoric rise as the drop w/ DS couldnt that simply be the industry creating it’s own interest as marketing tacts change?
Steve,
Wonder how many of the lead gen companies were typing “debt settlement” & “credit counseling” to view the ad’s? No doubt that the general demand for these services will be lower than 09-10 (the years where the “credit bubble” debt probably became the most unbearable).
However, use the google insight and zoom in to search just prior to the FTC announcements and right after… you’ll notice it drops dramatically at this time. Try some long-tail words “credit card debt help”, and the sort that aren’t so much “lead gen” words (the long broad Kw’s) and the demand is more stable.
The point you are making is correct… the “easy” demand is down! A lot of the system is flushed either through BK, settlement, CC, or not doing anything at all.
I was mainly pointing out that a lot of these broad generic terms were used by the dirt bag lead gens that go from hot industry to hot industry. Now that companies won’t shell out major bucks for semi-exclusive internet, they gotta move to other areas (tax settlement 😉
Companies looking for a quick buck, aren’t organized, efficient, etc….. these industries boom period have passed.
Steve,
Wonder how many of the lead gen companies were typing “debt settlement” & “credit counseling” to view the ad’s? No doubt that the general demand for these services will be lower than 09-10 (the years where the “credit bubble” debt probably became the most unbearable).
However, use the google insight and zoom in to search just prior to the FTC announcements and right after… you’ll notice it drops dramatically at this time. Try some long-tail words “credit card debt help”, and the sort that aren’t so much “lead gen” words (the long broad Kw’s) and the demand is more stable.
The point you are making is correct… the “easy” demand is down! A lot of the system is flushed either through BK, settlement, CC, or not doing anything at all.
I was mainly pointing out that a lot of these broad generic terms were used by the dirt bag lead gens that go from hot industry to hot industry. Now that companies won’t shell out major bucks for semi-exclusive internet, they gotta move to other areas (tax settlement 😉
Companies looking for a quick buck, aren’t organized, efficient, etc….. these industries boom period have passed.
It would be interesting to check those stats against Tax Sett & Sue your bank, mass joinder…. If there’s a meteoric rise as the drop w/ DS couldnt that simply be the industry creating it’s own interest as marketing tacts change?
I did look at mass joinder but there isn’t enough volume to report on yet.