I’ve been saying that the debt relief space is in a difficult spot right now. And I’ve provided warnings to all members of the debt relief community. Some have trounced me for being too “negative” in what I see just ahead.
But recently Jeff Tenenbaum gave a presentation at the recent credit counseling meetings of ACCPros. Here is what he had to say about what he sees.
In the close to 10 years that I have been speaking at credit counseling industry conferences, I have never seen the challenges and pressures facing the industry as great as what you are facing today. There is no question, in my mind, that the industry will look very different two years from now – maybe even in one year – than it does today. Not only mergers, consolidations and dissolutions, but the underlying business model and services provided to consumers likely will be very different.
So, where are these challenges and pressures coming from? Here are some of the highlights:
- The tightening of insured credit in recent years has led to less unsecured debt, reducing the need and demand for debt management plans.
- The federal CARD Act has led to a significant reduction in credit card fees (such as overlimit fees) the banks can charge, reducing the importance of debt management plan-based creditor concessions.
- As incomes have dropped, it has become harder and harder for consumers to qualify for full-balance debt management plans; fewer and lesser creditor concessions have not helped in this regard.
- Creditors have been less-than-speedy on moving forward with less-than-full-balance debt management plans (with reductions in principal, not just accrued interest). However, there are two notable, interesting pilot programs underway by folks in this room. Both are very different and take very different approaches to dealing with creditors. It will be very interesting to see how both turn out. Many have said that less-than-full-balance debt management plans are essential to the future survival of the industry.
- Pre-filing bankruptcy counseling has been under competitive challenge from largely taxable nonprofits that some refer to as online “certificate mills.” This has done significant harm to the quality of counseling; we have raised these issues repeatedly with the EOUST, as well as with supporters on Capitol Hill. Moreover, the bankruptcy counseling requirement remains under fire by some in Congress. We have been working with some of you to help protect this important consumer protection.
- Foreclosure prevention calls have dropped significantly as the housing crisis starts to subside, and there is no reason to think those prior call volumes will ever return. This is hitting hard those who ramped up to handle the higher call volumes. We are working with some of you to seek out mandated and funded housing counseling in other areas (such as pre-purchase counseling).
- The Uniform Debt-Management Services Act (“UDMSA”) – the model state debt adjusting law designed to regulate both nonprofit and for-profit credit counseling agencies (as well as debt settlement companies) – is in the process of being amended to conform to the Federal Trade Commission’s (FTC) amendments to the Telemarketing Sales Rule (“TSR”), including, most notably, a ban on collecting any fees until the first debt management plan payment goes to creditors. It should be finalized in July. These amendments are expected to make their way to the states in short order if and when approved this summer.
- The industry has a new federal regulator – as if you needed another regulator – called the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (“CFPB”). This new regulator also has been granted the authority, if it so chooses, to enforce, among other things, the FTC’s amendments to the TSR regarding debt relief services. As you know, the FTC itself does not have jurisdiction over bona fide nonprofits, but the CFPB most certainly does. It also is not inconceivable that the CFPB will come up with other new ways to regulate the industry if it deems such regulation necessary. With a number of you in attendance, we had an initial meeting with many of the CFPB’s senior officials in this area; it went very well. Unlike the IRS in the early days of the credit counseling compliance project, the CFPB does not view nonprofit credit counseling agencies as bad actors; they very much do feel that way about the for-profit debt settlement industry, however.
- On the IRS front, while the credit counseling compliance project is working its way toward winding up – although there still are a handful of notable audits still underway on which we continue to work – the IRS is not going away. In a recent example, the IRS denied Section 501(c)(3) tax-exempt status to a largely online pre-filing bankruptcy counseling provider, aggressively enforcing both Sections 501(c)(3) and 501(q) of the federal tax code. While the IRS conclusion was correct, its reasoning and analysis was flawed. See our recent alert on this new ruling.
- It appears that some of the nation’s top class-action plaintiffs’ lawyers are evaluating whether and against whom to bring a new wave of class-action suits against nonprofit, tax-exempt credit counseling agencies under the federal Credit Repair Organizations Act (“CROA”). As we can tell you from personal experience with multiple clients, these suits are massive, bet-the-company cases that are not easily disposed of (they are very fact-based so do not lend themselves to summary judgment or motions to dismiss), are expensive, distracting, and the plaintiffs’ lawyers will not go away without significant monetary compensation. Consider prospective compliance with CROA’s requirements (they are not onerous at all), as well as evaluating your insurance coverage and making whatever changes you can to fill coverage gaps. We have been working with many of you in this regard.
- Now if you are not thoroughly depressed, there is one piece of good news on the legal front – a very recent U.S. Supreme Court decision has provided a road map for crafting defensible class-action arbitration waivers in your debt management plan agreements. Prospectively, if you do this, you can do a lot to prevent class-action lawsuits or arbitrations by your clients. Note, however, that a pending U.S. Supreme Court case may end up carving out CROA from these waivers. See our recent alert on this case.
As I said at the onset, these are the most challenging times facing the industry I have ever seen – far worse than even the doom and gloom days of the early 2000s with congressional hearings and investigations, and the launch of IRS audits that ended up reaching virtually every tax-exempt agency in the industry. The status quo will not continue, I assure you. If you don’t change, adapt, be creative, find other uses for your counselors, think outside the box, find new funding sources, and create new products and services, you will not be able to help consumers and survive for long.
Many of you are already doing some of these things, but many of you have not, or are not doing enough. It is challenging, to be sure, especially because the complex array of federal and state laws and regulations governing the industry very much limits what you can do, how you can do it, and how you can charge for it. But I can tell you one thing for sure – those who are sitting in the audience at the 2012 or 2013 ACCPros Spring Conference will be those who – creatively, aggressively and prudently – explored the bounds of their agencies’ legal limits and reshaped their organizations to adapt to the changing world around them. – Source
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OMG!!! I had a flash-back to grade school, picking teams for Dodge Ball….Really? A total of 64 comments, mostly off topic, mostly saying (or implying) “Pick me, Pick meâ€. What’s worse, in my humble opinion, is MOST people who come to this site, won’t even read this thread. All this time and energy wasted, helping no one.Â
I found this site after Googling “How do I get myself out of debt?â€Â  I’ve watched the video, and read the free (a price I can afford) e-books, and had hope. I’ve also read other people’s posts, and realize there are many, many people worse off than me. People come to this site crying out for help (subjects covering illness, divorce, suicide, death, etc.), and usually receive NO comments, or the standard “there is debt counseling, debt settlement, debt consolidation, or bankruptcy. Here are links, take your pick (oh, by the way, all choices will cost you, money, credit hits, both)â€.
I think what bothers me most is that both the article, and the responses, talk to the subject of “How to get ahead, and stay ahead, in this industryâ€. The fact that this IS an industry, and that no one IN the industry really wants it to flounder (otherwise, you’re all out of work), is bothersome to me.
Mike, Damon – Since you both claim to be experts in resolving large debts, get in touch with my Uncle Sam. Resolve his debt, which will in turn remove my taxes, which will increase my income, which will allow me (and everyone else) to resolve our own debts, which will remove the need for credit cards, which will put the credit card industry out of business, which will put those employees out of work, which will cause them to need to ask for credit, which another industry will provide, which will get them into credit trouble, in which they will be able to turn to you to resolve.
Oh well. I guess no matter what, you guys will always have a job, unlike the rest of us……
OMG!!! I had a flash-back to grade school, picking teams for Dodge Ball….Really? A total of 64 comments, mostly off topic, mostly saying (or implying) “Pick me, Pick me”. What’s worse, in my humble opinion, is MOST people who come to this site, won’t even read this thread. All this time and energy wasted, helping no one.
I found this site after Googling “How do I get myself out of debt?” I’ve watched the video, and read the free (a price I can afford) e-books, and had hope. I’ve also read other people’s posts, and realize there are many, many people worse off than me. People come to this site crying out for help (subjects covering illness, divorce, suicide, death, etc.), and usually receive NO comments, or the standard “there is debt counseling, debt settlement, debt consolidation, or bankruptcy. Here are links, take your pick (oh, by the way, all choices will cost you, money, credit hits, both)”.
I think what bothers me most is that both the article, and the responses, talk to the subject of “How to get ahead, and stay ahead, in this industry”. The fact that this IS an industry, and that no one IN the industry really wants it to flounder (otherwise, you’re all out of work), is bothersome to me.
Mike, Damon – Since you both claim to be experts in resolving large debts, get in touch with my Uncle Sam. Resolve his debt, which will in turn remove my taxes, which will increase my income, which will allow me (and everyone else) to resolve our own debts, which will remove the need for credit cards, which will put the credit card industry out of business, which will put those employees out of work, which will cause them to need to ask for credit, which another industry will provide, which will get them into credit trouble, in which they will be able to turn to you to resolve.
Oh well. I guess no matter what, you guys will always have a job, unlike the rest of us……
this whole nesting thing is for the birds….see ya later i’m gone
now I’m answering the sales one 2 above this…. huge market..if so why not expand? Move out of the house, put a phone number on your blog so people can call and turn that homebased business into something real. Strike while the irons hot brother!
I’m answering the comment above this….i’ll hang around a bit, just took a dip in the pool and feeling good.
Not deflection, ennui!
cut and paste, new material please!
So now you should ask yourself, am I good because I am a good sales person or am I good because I have a service that fills a huge need in the marketplace and no matter how you try and attack it, you can’t shake the fact that you can’t come up with one logical reason why a consumer should not call me?
Can you give me a reason why a consumer shouldn’t talk to me and get a different perspective before they make a major financial decision based on the advice of a commissioned sales person?
Or is this the time you want to let this go?
Is that deflection I am sensing? Guess it is time for you to cut and run when I bring logic to the party.
No I don’t cut and paste, I just use my brain.
Can I buy a vowel please?
Mike when you read your comments do they ever make sense to you?
Damon, one more thing buddy and I let this go…. do you keep a word doc on your desk top with sentences like these so it’s just a simple cut and paste? You must have 100s of them and paragraphs just ready to go…I have seen these sooooooooo many times, you need new material guy.
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It is clear that you only want to attack me for the sake of attacking me.Do you feel that what I do is harmful to consumers? If so, please explain.If you don’t feel that what I do is harmful to consumers then why are you attacking me?Do you think offering choices to consumers and giving them information they are not likely to get during a sales call is a bad thing for them?Why would you discourage a consumer from speaking with me?
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Ahhahahahahahah……ahahahahahahah
Demon, for a second there you almost had me sold…you are good, you could make a fortune coaching sales teams? hint…hint
Damon, keep selling buddy, let me know when you sell yourself, in fact give yourself that “Massive Discount” you’ll feel better about buying from yourself…ahhahahaha…ahhahahahah
The debt settlement sales people are really starting to squirm in here. I love my job.
Well, if you weren’t so worried about trying to figure out a way to downplay the massive discounts I do get for consumers, you might have realized that the discounts are just a value added benefit. A bonus if you will. The real benefit is getting straight forward advice from an unbiased source.
Well I would consider 800 to 1500 a massive discount and I am sure most consumers would. However the beauty is again, they can talk to both of us and decide who makes more sense.
It is clear that you only want to attack me for the sake of attacking me.
Do you feel that what I do is harmful to consumers? If so, please explain.
If you don’t feel that what I do is harmful to consumers then why are you attacking me?
Do you think offering choices to consumers and giving them information they are not likely to get during a sales call is a bad thing for them?
Why would you discourage a consumer from speaking with me?
You are right about one thing, things that are happening here are very clear and easy to see.Â
You are afraid that providing consumers with real options in an unbiased way will hurt your bottom line.
What I love is that you continue to complain about Steve only talking negative about the industry. I announce that I have a very simple way to save consumers a lot of money and help “the good” debt settlement companies at the same time.
What do you do? Come out swinging right away trying to downplay it and imply that there is no benefit in speaking with me.
Funny thing is I offer a 110% money back guarantee and no client has ever asked for their money back after speaking with me. The only people who complain about my service are people like you who feel threatened by it.
I call that a clue.
These answers follow each one of your paragraphs
1. Damon, again you’re a smart guy, the attack was on the message “Get Massive Discounts” not what you do for a living. Show me one instance where I attach your service…you can’t. The bottom line is I don’t think anyone gets a “massive discount” if it’s between Emerge and one of the services you reccommend, prove otherwise.
2. What you do doesnt hurt my business one bit so jump down off that might horse you’re riding.
3. Damon, what you do is not rocket science, in fact, it’s quite simple really, it requires no licensing, no bonding, no formal education or otherwise. Like DS or any other debt relief service I’m sure the first 5 to 10 minutes would be easy to script, then it’s just plug and play. The only real difference between coaching and executing is….. well you know.
$. no doubt about it brother, that you are but, I look forward to what happens next, in fact it’s happening as we speak and so easy to see…can you see it?
5. I believe that too..push em off to someone else, no liability. Its clear you don’t have a clue what I do, after all this time that’s a shame.
6. I was in the appraisal industry for years and trust me, your business would be considered a poor comp to mine or anyone in the DS industry, no need to measure. And sure I’m ok with you poking around our industry, it make for some fun afternoons.
I didn’t call you an idiot, I advised you not to act like an idiot which is exactly how you are acting when I tell consumers specifically how and why I can get them discounts with debt settlements companies, you immediately try to figure out a way to attack it?
Why, well because it doesn’t make you money.
As usual Mike, in your own special way you have again proven my point that you can’t rely on most debt settlement sales people for unbiased advice. You tried to attack it clearly before you even understand it.
I am a salesman? Mike did you figure that out all by yourself? I have a business and I offer a service, of course I sell that service.Â
The difference is, I sell a service that lines up my client’s goals directly with my own. I get paid for good advice and you get paid to sell debt settlement.
So the good news is that we can put our measuring sticks away. Consumers can call you and listen to what you have to say, then they can call me and see what I have to say and then they can decide which one of us makes more sense.
I am ok with that, are you?
Seriously? That’s what you came away with?
How about the fact that consumers can get discounts and pay less for debt relief services. Isn’t that the good news story?
If not, give me a different good news story to post.
lol…you and Damon are hilarious!
Damon hustling clients on your website via a free ad from you is the only good industry news you can shine a light on, pathetic Steve!
One last thing, in the big scheme of things debt load for someone in trouble is irrelevant to me. What is relevant is the solution and achieving it, you of all people should know that!
Ben,
Certainly Damon’s guest post is a good news story, wouldn’t you agree? If not, what constitutes a good news story that achieves that balance you are looking for?
One last thing, in the big scheme of things debt load for someone in trouble is irrelevant to me. What’s relevant is the solution and how to achieve it, you of all people should know that!
That’s all u got, you call me an idiot, come on man call a spade a spade, you never had a problem before… you’re marketing with a banner ad (free or not) to get folks to call you, Yes or No?
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Don’t answer that…we know, we also know you have a head on your shoulders and clearly the word Massive combined with Discount is better than Big or Great or just Discounted DS programs.
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You’re a salesman Damon, we all watch you sell here every single day and there’s nothing wrong with that… just please, don’t try and insult our intelligence.
What? You mean you were only interested in the numbers so you could try and manipulate them and attack me for offering a good service to my clients?
Wow, I am shocked.
I said a consumer with an average debt load. Is your average client’s debt load only 10,000 dollars?
Don’t act like an idiot Mike it is unbecoming
Damon, sure my service fee is higher than yours, I do the work and spend a lot more than an hour with my clients. Let’s take a look at a real basic example; 10k debt amount, 4 creditors, $2500 each (I know it never seems to work out like this but, humor me) my fee as posted on the home page of my web site 12.5% of the debt amount enrolled, that’s $1250… Not a penny more, not a penny less.
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You state in the new guest post that consumers who speak with you first (those considering DS) typically see a savings (Massive Discount) of $800 to $1500 so are you telling readers that you can get them done at around $450 plus your $147…hello $600?
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Who is settling debt at $112.50 per debt, if I was suffering with the above example and saw your ad and was considering DS is this what I could expect or is it really designed as a hook like most who market with banners?
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“Massive discount” don’t you think it is a little disingenuous on your part to phrase it like that?
Damon, sure my service fee is higher than yours, I do the work and spend a lot more than an hour with my clients. Let’s take a look at a real basic example; 10k debt amount, 4 creditors, $2500 each (I know it never seems to work out like this but, humor me) my fee as posted on the home page of my web site 12.5% of the debt amount enrolled, that’s $1250… Not a penny more, not a penny less.
You state in the new guest post that consumers who speak with you first (those considering DS) typically see a savings (Massive Discount) of $800 to $1500 so are you telling readers that you can get them done at around $450 plus your $147…hello $600?
Who is settling debt at $112.50 per debt, if I was suffering with the above example and saw your ad and was considering DS is this what I could expect or is it really designed as a hook like most who market with banners?
“Massive discount” don’t you think it is a little disingenuous on your part to phrase it like that?
What? You mean you were only interested in the numbers so you could try and manipulate them and attack me for offering a good service to my clients?
Wow, I am shocked.
I said a consumer with an average debt load. Is your average client’s debt load only 10,000 dollars?
Don’t act like an idiot Mike it is unbecoming
That’s all u got, you call me an idiot, come on man call a spade a spade, you never had a problem before… you’re marketing with a banner ad (free or not) to get folks to call you, Yes or No?
Don’t answer that…we know, we also know you have a head on your shoulders and clearly the word Massive combined with Discount is better than Big or Great or just Discounted DS programs.
You’re a salesman Damon, we all watch you sell here every single day and there’s nothing wrong with that… just please, don’t try and insult our intelligence.
One last thing, in the big scheme of things debt load for someone in trouble is irrelevant to me. What is relevant is the solution and achieving it, you of all people should know that!
I didn’t call you an idiot, I advised you not to act like an idiot which is exactly how you are acting when I tell consumers specifically how and why I can get them discounts with debt settlements companies, you immediately try to figure out a way to attack it?
Why, well because it doesn’t make you money.
As usual Mike, in your own special way you have again proven my point that you can’t rely on most debt settlement sales people for unbiased advice. You tried to attack it clearly before you even understand it.
I am a salesman? Mike did you figure that out all by yourself? I have a business and I offer a service, of course I sell that service.
The difference is, I sell a service that lines up my client’s goals directly with my own. I get paid for good advice and you get paid to sell debt settlement.
So the good news is that we can put our measuring sticks away. Consumers can call you and listen to what you have to say, then they can call me and see what I have to say and then they can decide which one of us makes more sense.
I am ok with that, are you?
These answers follow each one of your paragraphs
1. Damon, again you’re a smart guy, the attack was on the message “Get Massive Discounts” not what you do for a living. Show me one instance where I attach your service…you can’t. The bottom line is I don’t think anyone gets a “massive discount” if it’s between Emerge and one of the services you reccommend, prove otherwise.
2. What you do doesnt hurt my business one bit so jump down off that might horse you’re riding.
3. Damon, what you do is not rocket science, in fact, it’s quite simple really, it requires no licensing, no bonding, no formal education or otherwise. Like DS or any other debt relief service I’m sure the first 5 to 10 minutes would be easy to script, then it’s just plug and play. The only real difference between coaching and executing is….. well you know.
$. no doubt about it brother, that you are but, I look forward to what happens next, in fact it’s happening as we speak and so easy to see…can you see it?
5. I believe that too..push em off to someone else, no liability. Its clear you don’t have a clue what I do, after all this time that’s a shame.
6. I was in the appraisal industry for years and trust me, your business would be considered a poor comp to mine or anyone in the DS industry, no need to measure. And sure I’m ok with you poking around our industry, it make for some fun afternoons.
Well I would consider 800 to 1500 a massive discount and I am sure most consumers would. However the beauty is again, they can talk to both of us and decide who makes more sense.
It is clear that you only want to attack me for the sake of attacking me.
Do you feel that what I do is harmful to consumers? If so, please explain.
If you don’t feel that what I do is harmful to consumers then why are you attacking me?
Do you think offering choices to consumers and giving them information they are not likely to get during a sales call is a bad thing for them?
Why would you discourage a consumer from speaking with me?
You are right about one thing, things that are happening here are very clear and easy to see.
You are afraid that providing consumers with real options in an unbiased way will hurt your bottom line.
What I love is that you continue to complain about Steve only talking negative about the industry. I announce that I have a very simple way to save consumers a lot of money and help “the good” debt settlement companies at the same time.
What do you do? Come out swinging right away trying to downplay it and imply that there is no benefit in speaking with me.
Funny thing is I offer a 110% money back guarantee and no client has ever asked for their money back after speaking with me. The only people who complain about my service are people like you who feel threatened by it.
I call that a clue.
One last thing, in the big scheme of things debt load for someone in trouble is irrelevant to me. What’s relevant is the solution and how to achieve it, you of all people should know that!
Well, if you weren’t so worried about trying to figure out a way to downplay the massive discounts I do get for consumers, you might have realized that the discounts are just a value added benefit. A bonus if you will. The real benefit is getting straight forward advice from an unbiased source.
Demon, for a second there you almost had me sold…you are good, you could make a fortune coaching sales teams? hint…hint
So now you should ask yourself, am I good because I am a good sales person or am I good because I have a service that fills a huge need in the marketplace and no matter how you try and attack it, you can’t shake the fact that you can’t come up with one logical reason why a consumer should not call me?
Can you give me a reason why a consumer shouldn’t talk to me and get a different perspective before they make a major financial decision based on the advice of a commissioned sales person?
Or is this the time you want to let this go?
Damon, one more thing buddy and I let this go…. do you keep a word doc on your desk top with sentences like these so it’s just a simple cut and paste? You must have 100s of them and paragraphs just ready to go…I have seen these sooooooooo many times, you need new material guy.
It is clear that you only want to attack me for the sake of attacking me.Do you feel that what I do is harmful to consumers? If so, please explain.If you don’t feel that what I do is harmful to consumers then why are you attacking me?Do you think offering choices to consumers and giving them information they are not likely to get during a sales call is a bad thing for them?Why would you discourage a consumer from speaking with me?
Ahhahahahahahah……ahahahahahahah
Is that deflection I am sensing? Guess it is time for you to cut and run when I bring logic to the party.
No I don’t cut and paste, I just use my brain.
Damon, keep selling buddy, let me know when you sell yourself, in fact give yourself that “Massive Discount” you’ll feel better about buying from yourself…ahhahahaha…ahhahahahah
Can I buy a vowel please?
Mike when you read your comments do they ever make sense to you?
cut and paste, new material please!
I’m answering the comment above this….i’ll hang around a bit, just took a dip in the pool and feeling good.
now I’m answering the sales one 2 above this…. huge market..if so why not expand? Move out of the house, put a phone number on your blog so people can call and turn that homebased business into something real. Strike while the irons hot brother!
Not deflection, ennui!
this whole nesting thing is for the birds….see ya later i’m gone
Jorge,
I clicked on the link to his page and it does not have a bunch of copy on it. What exactly could you not believe what you were reading?
Catch on to…..?
I think the way the legislation was changed in the last round created too much liability for debt relief companies on the “reasonable” fee language. Better dead at this point than that.
I’m looking forward to meeting Caryn Becker who played a big part in crafting that bill at the class in July. She’s going to be speaking.
Mike, I think you meant comments instead of posts. The comments are set to nest no more than five levels deep. At one point recently I took that off to avoid the reply link problem when five levels deep but people just kept replying and soon the comments were just a narrow list of single vertical words.
The solution appears to be to go up one level and reply or start a new reply and use the @ feature and direct the comment directly to the person you wish to respond to.
As promised, here is the link to Damon’s guest post on his debt settlement discount approach.
Steve how do you view CA SB708 dead for the year, maybe two….good news or bad?
Sometimes you can’t reply because the nested comments have been limited to 5 because the posts were getting so skinny in the heated debates that you couldn’t really read them.
Well, clearly Jorge doesn’t know my story as he seems to imply that I might be doing something underhanded. So I certainly hope he comes back on and tries to explain his comment.
Yes of course, I already wrote the “long winded post” and as soon as Steve has some time I am sure he will post it. The article explains how and why I am able to get discounts for my clients and why it is in the best interest of honest debt settlement companies to offer discounts to my clients. A real win win for consumers and for good companies.
Now Mike, “the hook to the $147.00?” Really?
You know I offer clients a 110% money back guarantee on my consultation and considering your debt settlement service service costs about 20 to 30 times what I charge, don’t you think it is a little disingenuous on your part to phrase it like that?
Steve, why is it that certain posts allow a reply and other don’t? Anyway, Damon, I am honored that you think of me when you make certain moves and for the record, you don’t need to create a long winded post on why people should call you first, we have all read your theory here on this site a 1000+ times.
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I do believe though many of us in the DS industry are interested in the “massive discount” (your blog states “big discount”) that you provide consumers as compared to the rest of the industry. Would you be willing to share that info or is it really the hook to the $147.00?
You know it is funny, when I gave Steve the ad, I said I bet Mike Reilly can’t help but say something. Sure enough, I don’t think it was online more than two hours and here we are.
So in your honor I wrote a guest post to explain why a consumer should always talk to me before making any final decision on a debt settlement program. I am sure it will post in the morning and I will link to it here.
Catch on to what Jorge?
I agree with you Mike in questioning this considering “everything” Damon has to say about debt settlement…I clicked on his ad and couldn’t believe what I was reading!
These two really are thick as “thieves”…WOW!
I think a lot of people are starting to catch on…
Jorge
I know I asked him earlier to write up a guest post about his process and discounts so as soon as I get it tonight or in the AM, I’ll post a link in the comments here for you.
I appreciate that and it’s also quite nice of you to extend the free ad to Damon for all his work here. Steve do you know the “massive discount” he secures for consumers in need of DS services? That’s probably an easy number for you to quote, no?
I thought you’d want to be notified because you had been mentioned.
I gave Damon a free internal ad rotation as a thank you for all the help he gives consumers on this site answering reader and forum questions.
Damon, don’t take this wrong but I’m digging that ad “Get Massive Discounts”… Can you give us all a range of the fees you can secure for consumers based on the providers you recommend (I know the list is small) or is that something you provide after the $147.00 consultation fee?
 Did you really pay the $945 for the month….be honest man?
Matt, you sending that promised guest post soon?
OK
It seems like because this guy “Huh” mentioned
my name Steve may have been compelled to send it to me, not sure though…. I
do not subscribe to any of these feeds or emails. If it’s a new feature it
could be construe as spam. By the way this guy huh is either new of just an alias for someone else, only 2 posts but remembered my name and the comment I made about a up coming press release….interesting don’t you think?
Hey Mike, it hit my email too. Can you see it? Crazy, right?
How many million people do we need that are in
trouble, sure demand will fluctuate but’ there will always be those who need
service. The question is; will all the servicers be there to provide?
Â
No press release yet, you’ll know it when it
hits.
Â
Steve, how is it that this thread hit my
email?
Damon, Isn’t great how DSC’s love to twist the facts to justify their poor service? I have been going round and round with these people for months on this. The horse is pretty dead…
Debt Settlement Companies do way more harm than good. Simple as that! enough with “oh we do it the right way and every client has a special situation…please already…you charged high fees, misrepresented the service you provide and 9 out 10 times never ever explained possible tax ramifications or law suits.
Hi Mike,
Good to see your smiling avatar again. I just saw your comment over on the other thread, that there is plenty of debt relief business out there.
Do you disagree with what Tennenbaum said in his presentation about declining demand?
While you are here. Care to submit a guest post with a “debt relief good news” story. Some commentators are saying I’m not publishing enough. What do you have to submit?
Have you sent out that press release you mentioned a while back? Please send it in.
ACA International Face-to-Face Event
ACA Int’l’s 72nd Annual Convention & ExpoWednesday, July 13, 2011 – Friday, July 15, 2011
http://www.acainternational.or…
Huh, why are you calling me a trouncer? Who
are you anyway? Here is the good news, “regulation” has and will
cause major change and decreased competition, so if you can hang in there and
comply it’s all good!
Steve I do not subscribe to any RSS feeds on your site but for some reason this thread and only this tread is reaching my email, can you explain?
geez art
if a conference which is just another conference attended by many of the same people who have been attending conferences is all the good there is to highlight why trounce steve?
a conference is not good news. what happens there might be but the agenda does not point to anything warm and fuzzy good news are us type stuff.
perhaps things are as bad as they seem. i get that people dont want the world to be able to read about it or that industry players prefer to smoke hopium instead of getting real about the climate for business and future prospects. doesnt change the realities though.
19th Annual Financial Services Collections & Credit Risk ConferenceNovember 2-4, 2011The Cosmopolitan, Las Vegas, NV http://www.collectionscreditri…
http://www.collectionscreditri…
Art,
Is the Evolution 2011 conference the only piece of good news out there?
I’ve previously told Matt I’d publish a piece on the conference if he sent it in. And I’ve linked to the conference for readers to find out more. What more do you want?
At the end of the day, it’s a conference. And it’s not a grand new concept and certainly can’t be the only piece of debt related good news out there that people feel I missed. If I’m not publishing debt relief industry good news, please tell me what I’m missing.
As far as a conference that brings together from different parts of debt relief, the annual Collections and Credit Risk conferences used to be the place to go for that. I went to my first one in 1994.
So here is the bottom line:
1. People have said my projections and outlook in previous articles was bogus but Tennenbaum sees the same thing.
2. If I’m missing good news in the debt relief industry I should be printing I keep asking for guest posts but none are coming in so either I’m not missing anything or people are not willing to tell me about it.
3. There is a conference coming up called Evolution and more information on it can be found at evolution2011.com.
The debt relief industry is so great? Where was your company when regulators were asking for results and asking for you to show some evidence as to why you shouldn’t be regulated?
You can piss and moan all you want, but the facts are the facts. The reality is that a majority of debt settlement programs hurt far more consumers than they help.Â
How many press releases are put out by debt settlement companies telling consumers about the negatives of debt settlement?
hmm, seems pretty one sided to me.
You guys are drunk on your own kool aid, and while you don’t like the fact that the dark side of what you do is out there for consumers to see, you also don’t have any actual facts to show that what we are saying is wrong. So please feel free not to come back. The important thing is that consumers do come to this site and they do get a different side of the story than they are going to get from one of your sales people.
the debt relief industry industry employs thousands and helps millions and Steve doen’t think it is good industry news when a conference brings together hundreds of people from all sectors of this industry to meet, share and learn????…Steve and Damon are only bloggers and are not friends of this industry and are only interested in profiting from their constant negative debt relief industry reports…bloggers can only profit by doing this…like richardn75 I will no longer follow or comment on posts of this one sided blog.
Art
the debt relief industry industry employs thousands and helps millions and Steve doen’t think it is good industry news when a conference brings together hundreds of people from all sectors of this industry to meet, share and learn????…Steve and Damon are only bloggers and are not friends of this industry and are only interested in profiting from their constant negative debt relief industry reports…bloggers can only profit by doing this…like richardn75 I will no longer follow or comment on posts of this one sided blog.
Art
The debt relief industry is so great? Where was your company when regulators were asking for results and asking for you to show some evidence as to why you shouldn’t be regulated?
You can piss and moan all you want, but the facts are the facts. The reality is that a majority of debt settlement programs hurt far more consumers than they help.
How many press releases are put out by debt settlement companies telling consumers about the negatives of debt settlement?
hmm, seems pretty one sided to me.
You guys are drunk on your own kool aid, and while you don’t like the fact that the dark side of what you do is out there for consumers to see, you also don’t have any actual facts to show that what we are saying is wrong. So please feel free not to come back. The important thing is that consumers do come to this site and they do get a different side of the story than they are going to get from one of your sales people.
Damon, Isn’t great how DSC’s love to twist the facts to justify their poor service? I have been going round and round with these people for months on this. The horse is pretty dead…
Debt Settlement Companies do way more harm than good. Simple as that! enough with “oh we do it the right way and every client has a special situation…please already…you charged high fees, misrepresented the service you provide and 9 out 10 times never ever explained possible tax ramifications or law suits.
Art,
Is the Evolution 2011 conference the only piece of good news out there?
I’ve previously told Matt I’d publish a piece on the conference if he sent it in. And I’ve linked to the conference for readers to find out more. What more do you want?
At the end of the day, it’s a conference. And it’s not a grand new concept and certainly can’t be the only piece of debt related good news out there that people feel I missed. If I’m not publishing debt relief industry good news, please tell me what I’m missing.
As far as a conference that brings together from different parts of debt relief, the annual Collections and Credit Risk conferences used to be the place to go for that. I went to my first one in 1994.
So here is the bottom line:
1. People have said my projections and outlook in previous articles was bogus but Tennenbaum sees the same thing.
2. If I’m missing good news in the debt relief industry I should be printing I keep asking for guest posts but none are coming in so either I’m not missing anything or people are not willing to tell me about it.
3. There is a conference coming up called Evolution and more information on it can be found at evolution2011.com.
19th Annual Financial Services Collections & Credit Risk ConferenceNovember 2-4, 2011The Cosmopolitan, Las Vegas, NV http://www.collectionscreditrisk.com/conferences/fscc/
http://www.collectionscreditrisk.com/conferences/fscc/
ACA International Face-to-Face Event
ACA Int’l’s 72nd Annual Convention & ExpoWednesday, July 13, 2011 – Friday, July 15, 2011
http://www.acainternational.org/events.aspx?cid=17245&eid=conv2011
Seems to be a lot of commiserating going on in here.
I love this “The industry has come so far in the past several months”
Where was the industry before the last several months?
So you admit the industry was total BS for consumers?
My one sided opinion is that it still is for the most part, and your one sided opinion is that it isn’t. Let’s discuss and give consumers two sides so they can determine which one of us makes more sense.
Now you think that all of these BS players are going to have a change of heart simply because a new law makes it harder for them to screw consumers?
If anything the new law just made it harder to spot the snakes and there is a need for someone to provide balance for consumers.
If Steve didn’t report on the realities of how most of the debt settlement industry operates, where would consumers get this side of the story? Oh that’s right, they wouldn’t, and that would be just dandy for you huh?
Ya, the industry has really come a long way. Just look at TASC, they changed all their words and are now consumer advocates.
A long way indeed.
Yes, I was a speaker at Evolution and did get bumped without notifying me but that had nothing to do with the master class Scott Johnson, Michael Bovee and I are putting on in July. The folks were pissed at me and cancelled me after I had agreed to speak about compliance issues at the TASC meeting.Â
I think all of that was covered in the comments of this post.
In fact I believe Matt asked Scott not long ago to speak at Evolution as well so holding the class must not be an issue at all.I’ve linked to Evolution and offered Matt to post a piece about it but help people to understand how is the Evolution conference is a good news story that creates an expanding opportunity for the debt relief industry. It seems to be focused on helping companies to focus on regulatory compliance but isn’t that just the basic foundation that all companies should be proactively pursuing anyway?
Certainly that’s not the good news story you are thinking of.So is the Evolution meeting the only piece of good news you’ve got to share? Share it.The meeting says it is going to help people with: Lead Generation and Marketing tools, Sales process improvement and Compliance, Business process improvements and enhancement techniques, Diversification techniques and model improvements, Revenue viability techniques in a post TSR/NAF world. So please submit a guest post on good news about any of those topics.Otherwise what is the good news story about Evolution 2011? Please submit a guest post about it and I’m happy to publish it so everyone can understand the good news story you see.
geez Steve…you are incredible!
You say “what is the good news?”, richardn75 gave you a good news story in mentioning the Evolution 2011 conference (there’s one to start)…oh yea I forgot you posted a while ago that this conference bumped you as a speaker and you responded to the snub by announcing your own conference (masterclass) to be held in advance of the Evolution conference (denial expected).
Way to support the industry Steve!!
As I have said before, I’ll be happy to publish any positive guest post story someone wants to contribute. Nobody has. If you feel this site has missed an important story that it should have covered, please submit it using the guest post link on the right hand side. To date I’m still waiting for Matt Hearn’s promised story and if you have alternative information or a point of view to share, please feel free to submit your guest post as well.
I’m certainly not afraid to cover the good news but what is it?
As far as “repeated” stories, you will find that each story was prompted by some new piece of information or fact that spoke to the issue.
I hear your perception that you feel the site is too heavily weighted with bad news, but again, what is the good news? How about contrIbuting what you feel is missing rather than just complaining it’s missing.
My site and hand are extended to you, please submit your guest post.
Steve, you are totally missing Ben45678’s point but others seem to get it no problem. He was not critizing the content of your post (Jeffrey Tennenbaum’s speech) but the fact that you chose to post this kind of article again (and again and again).
It is obvious to many who follow your posts that you post negative industry news because it has historically provided a lively debate (fight). Your blog benefits from these fights by the increase in web traffic and clicks on the ads.
It also appears to many that 95% of your posts are on negative industry news and you give very little attention to the positive things going on in the recovering debt relief industry.
It is unfortunate that a couple of internet bloggers (who call themselves journalists, lol) can do so much damage to a struggling industry with their unbalanced blog posts.
There are very good people in this industry (like Matt Hearn) doing very good things (like the Evolution 2011 conference) and you give them very little attention unless they engage in a fight with you.
The industry has come so far in the past several months and sure it still has a way to go but it is apparent that when there are fewer negative issues for you to draw attention to your blog will be out of business!
I will not engage further with you on this topic or my comments, this is the only and last comment I will make on your website, I will not help you or Damon by playing your blogger’s game.
Richard N.
So your position is that Jeffrey Tennenbaum from Venable is also putting on a “one sided twist” in his view of the debt relief industry in the next couple of years as well?Â
What is there to pick a fight with? This presentation from Tennenbaum simply affirms the statements I’ve been making here about the decline in demand.
The words in this story are his, not mine. I’d love to hear your impression of what Tennenbaum was wrong about.Â
By the way, having a discussion to seek clarity is not “picking a fight” it’s trying to get to the facts to understand the current landscape.
What are you seeing that contradicts what Tennenbaum said?
But what if the one side is the correct side?
How would proving that Steve is wrong only help Steve? Oh, I forgot, they haven’t been able to.
That might be the reason they didn’t come out to play.
maybe they are sick of pointing out your one sided twist on this…you don’t seem to learn and haven’t balanced your negative reports on the state of the industry…my guess is that these guys have figured out that you post these reports to pick a fight and that they have better things to do than trade opinions with you which only helps you…
Yea, where are they?
steve trouncers come from the debt settlement side. not much in this piece about settlement and its focus is credit counseling. where is mike reilly on this? where is the “trouncer”? this is the kind of thread right in his wheelhouse of late. mike, what say you? wheres that announcement presser thingy you had mentioned in a comment some time ago?
Where are all the naysayers trouncing Steve???
steve trouncers come from the debt settlement side. not much in this piece about settlement and its focus is credit counseling. where is mike reilly on this? where is the “trouncer”? this is the kind of thread right in his wheelhouse of late. mike, what say you? wheres that announcement presser thingy you had mentioned in a comment some time ago?
Huh, why are you calling me a trouncer? Who
are you anyway? Here is the good news, “regulation” has and will
cause major change and decreased competition, so if you can hang in there and
comply it’s all good!
Steve I do not subscribe to any RSS feeds on your site but for some reason this thread and only this tread is reaching my email, can you explain?
Hi Mike,
Good to see your smiling avatar again. I just saw your comment over on the other thread, that there is plenty of debt relief business out there.
Do you disagree with what Tennenbaum said in his presentation about declining demand?
While you are here. Care to submit a guest post with a “debt relief good news” story. Some commentators are saying I’m not publishing enough. What do you have to submit?
Have you sent out that press release you mentioned a while back? Please send it in.
How many million people do we need that are in
trouble, sure demand will fluctuate but’ there will always be those who need
service. The question is; will all the servicers be there to provide?
No press release yet, you’ll know it when it
hits.
Steve, how is it that this thread hit my
email?
Hey Mike, it hit my email too. Can you see it? Crazy, right?
It seems like because this guy “Huh” mentioned
my name Steve may have been compelled to send it to me, not sure though…. I
do not subscribe to any of these feeds or emails. If it’s a new feature it
could be construe as spam. By the way this guy huh is either new of just an alias for someone else, only 2 posts but remembered my name and the comment I made about a up coming press release….interesting don’t you think?
Matt, you sending that promised guest post soon?
OK
Steve how do you view CA SB708 dead for the year, maybe two….good news or bad?
I think the way the legislation was changed in the last round created too much liability for debt relief companies on the “reasonable” fee language. Better dead at this point than that.
I’m looking forward to meeting Caryn Becker who played a big part in crafting that bill at the class in July. She’s going to be speaking.
I thought you’d want to be notified because you had been mentioned.
I appreciate that and it’s also quite nice of you to extend the free ad to Damon for all his work here. Steve do you know the “massive discount” he secures for consumers in need of DS services? That’s probably an easy number for you to quote, no?
I know I asked him earlier to write up a guest post about his process and discounts so as soon as I get it tonight or in the AM, I’ll post a link in the comments here for you.
As promised, here is the link to Damon’s guest post on his debt settlement discount approach.
Yea, where are they?
maybe they are sick of pointing out your one sided twist on this…you don’t seem to learn and haven’t balanced your negative reports on the state of the industry…my guess is that these guys have figured out that you post these reports to pick a fight and that they have better things to do than trade opinions with you which only helps you…
But what if the one side is the correct side?
How would proving that Steve is wrong only help Steve? Oh, I forgot, they haven’t been able to.
That might be the reason they didn’t come out to play.
Damon, don’t take this wrong but I’m digging that ad “Get Massive Discounts”… Can you give us all a range of the fees you can secure for consumers based on the providers you recommend (I know the list is small) or is that something you provide after the $147.00 consultation fee?
Did you really pay the $945 for the month….be honest man?
I gave Damon a free internal ad rotation as a thank you for all the help he gives consumers on this site answering reader and forum questions.
I agree with you Mike in questioning this considering “everything” Damon has to say about debt settlement…I clicked on his ad and couldn’t believe what I was reading!
These two really are thick as “thieves”…WOW!
I think a lot of people are starting to catch on…
Jorge
Catch on to what Jorge?
Jorge,
I clicked on the link to his page and it does not have a bunch of copy on it. What exactly could you not believe what you were reading?
Catch on to…..?
You know it is funny, when I gave Steve the ad, I said I bet Mike Reilly can’t help but say something. Sure enough, I don’t think it was online more than two hours and here we are.
So in your honor I wrote a guest post to explain why a consumer should always talk to me before making any final decision on a debt settlement program. I am sure it will post in the morning and I will link to it here.
Steve, why is it that certain posts allow a reply and other don’t? Anyway, Damon, I am honored that you think of me when you make certain moves and for the record, you don’t need to create a long winded post on why people should call you first, we have all read your theory here on this site a 1000+ times.
I do believe though many of us in the DS industry are interested in the “massive discount” (your blog states “big discount”) that you provide consumers as compared to the rest of the industry. Would you be willing to share that info or is it really the hook to the $147.00?
Sometimes you can’t reply because the nested comments have been limited to 5 because the posts were getting so skinny in the heated debates that you couldn’t really read them.
Well, clearly Jorge doesn’t know my story as he seems to imply that I might be doing something underhanded. So I certainly hope he comes back on and tries to explain his comment.
Yes of course, I already wrote the “long winded post” and as soon as Steve has some time I am sure he will post it. The article explains how and why I am able to get discounts for my clients and why it is in the best interest of honest debt settlement companies to offer discounts to my clients. A real win win for consumers and for good companies.
Now Mike, “the hook to the $147.00?” Really?
You know I offer clients a 110% money back guarantee on my consultation and considering your debt settlement service service costs about 20 to 30 times what I charge, don’t you think it is a little disingenuous on your part to phrase it like that?
Mike, I think you meant comments instead of posts. The comments are set to nest no more than five levels deep. At one point recently I took that off to avoid the reply link problem when five levels deep but people just kept replying and soon the comments were just a narrow list of single vertical words.
The solution appears to be to go up one level and reply or start a new reply and use the @ feature and direct the comment directly to the person you wish to respond to.
So your position is that Jeffrey Tennenbaum from Venable is also putting on a “one sided twist” in his view of the debt relief industry in the next couple of years as well?
What is there to pick a fight with? This presentation from Tennenbaum simply affirms the statements I’ve been making here about the decline in demand.
The words in this story are his, not mine. I’d love to hear your impression of what Tennenbaum was wrong about.
By the way, having a discussion to seek clarity is not “picking a fight” it’s trying to get to the facts to understand the current landscape.
What are you seeing that contradicts what Tennenbaum said?
Steve, you are totally missing Ben45678’s point but others seem to get it no problem. He was not critizing the content of your post (Jeffrey Tennenbaum’s speech) but the fact that you chose to post this kind of article again (and again and again).
It is obvious to many who follow your posts that you post negative industry news because it has historically provided a lively debate (fight). Your blog benefits from these fights by the increase in web traffic and clicks on the ads.
It also appears to many that 95% of your posts are on negative industry news and you give very little attention to the positive things going on in the recovering debt relief industry.
It is unfortunate that a couple of internet bloggers (who call themselves journalists, lol) can do so much damage to a struggling industry with their unbalanced blog posts.
There are very good people in this industry (like Matt Hearn) doing very good things (like the Evolution 2011 conference) and you give them very little attention unless they engage in a fight with you.
The industry has come so far in the past several months and sure it still has a way to go but it is apparent that when there are fewer negative issues for you to draw attention to your blog will be out of business!
I will not engage further with you on this topic or my comments, this is the only and last comment I will make on your website, I will not help you or Damon by playing your blogger’s game.
Richard N.
As I have said before, I’ll be happy to publish any positive guest post story someone wants to contribute. Nobody has. If you feel this site has missed an important story that it should have covered, please submit it using the guest post link on the right hand side. To date I’m still waiting for Matt Hearn’s promised story and if you have alternative information or a point of view to share, please feel free to submit your guest post as well.
I’m certainly not afraid to cover the good news but what is it?
As far as “repeated” stories, you will find that each story was prompted by some new piece of information or fact that spoke to the issue.
I hear your perception that you feel the site is too heavily weighted with bad news, but again, what is the good news? How about contrIbuting what you feel is missing rather than just complaining it’s missing.
My site and hand are extended to you, please submit your guest post.
Seems to be a lot of commiserating going on in here.
I love this “The industry has come so far in the past several months”
Where was the industry before the last several months?
So you admit the industry was total BS for consumers?
My one sided opinion is that it still is for the most part, and your one sided opinion is that it isn’t. Let’s discuss and give consumers two sides so they can determine which one of us makes more sense.
Now you think that all of these BS players are going to have a change of heart simply because a new law makes it harder for them to screw consumers?
If anything the new law just made it harder to spot the snakes and there is a need for someone to provide balance for consumers.
If Steve didn’t report on the realities of how most of the debt settlement industry operates, where would consumers get this side of the story? Oh that’s right, they wouldn’t, and that would be just dandy for you huh?
Ya, the industry has really come a long way. Just look at TASC, they changed all their words and are now consumer advocates.
A long way indeed.
geez Steve…you are incredible!
You say “what is the good news?”, richardn75 gave you a good news story in mentioning the Evolution 2011 conference (there’s one to start)…oh yea I forgot you posted a while ago that this conference bumped you as a speaker and you responded to the snub by announcing your own conference (masterclass) to be held in advance of the Evolution conference (denial expected).
Way to support the industry Steve!!
Yes, I was a speaker at Evolution and did get bumped without notifying me but that had nothing to do with the master class Scott Johnson, Michael Bovee and I are putting on in July. The folks were pissed at me and cancelled me after I had agreed to speak about compliance issues at the TASC meeting.
I think all of that was covered in the comments of this post.
In fact I believe Matt asked Scott not long ago to speak at Evolution as well so holding the class must not be an issue at all.I’ve linked to Evolution and offered Matt to post a piece about it but help people to understand how is the Evolution conference is a good news story that creates an expanding opportunity for the debt relief industry. It seems to be focused on helping companies to focus on regulatory compliance but isn’t that just the basic foundation that all companies should be proactively pursuing anyway?
Certainly that’s not the good news story you are thinking of.So is the Evolution meeting the only piece of good news you’ve got to share? Share it.The meeting says it is going to help people with: Lead Generation and Marketing tools, Sales process improvement and Compliance, Business process improvements and enhancement techniques, Diversification techniques and model improvements, Revenue viability techniques in a post TSR/NAF world. So please submit a guest post on good news about any of those topics.Otherwise what is the good news story about Evolution 2011? Please submit a guest post about it and I’m happy to publish it so everyone can understand the good news story you see.
geez art
if a conference which is just another conference attended by many of the same people who have been attending conferences is all the good there is to highlight why trounce steve?
a conference is not good news. what happens there might be but the agenda does not point to anything warm and fuzzy good news are us type stuff.
perhaps things are as bad as they seem. i get that people dont want the world to be able to read about it or that industry players prefer to smoke hopium instead of getting real about the climate for business and future prospects. doesnt change the realities though.
Ben,
Certainly Damon’s guest post is a good news story, wouldn’t you agree? If not, what constitutes a good news story that achieves that balance you are looking for?
lol…you and Damon are hilarious!
Damon hustling clients on your website via a free ad from you is the only good industry news you can shine a light on, pathetic Steve!
Seriously? That’s what you came away with?
How about the fact that consumers can get discounts and pay less for debt relief services. Isn’t that the good news story?
If not, give me a different good news story to post.
The debt settlement sales people are really starting to squirm in here. I love my job.
Where are all the naysayers trouncing Steve???