Mark Anderson of the Sacramento Business Journal is reporting that Andrew Houser and his Freedom Financial Network will close their office in Sacramento, California and begin “curbing its local operation Nov. 15, with employees winding down over about a six-month period.”
The change is blamed on recent FTC telemarketing rules changes and the need to realign the business moving forward.
It is reported the Sacramento office handles debt settlement customer support and settlement negotiations and that the sales force is still snug in their offices in San Mateo, California and Phoenix, Arizona.
Houser offers this most incredulous quote, “That is a really short period of time to complete revamp our entire business in marketing, accounting and strategy.”
Apparently as “involved” as Houser has been claiming to have been in the rule making process with the FTC he did not begin making advance plans to adjust his operation. Now he is quoted as saying, “That is a completely different way of doing business. This is a labor-intensive business.”
It can take months or even years of work before the company is able to negotiate the final settlement, the article says. If that’s a message Houser was giving out, really? The only reason there is more work in the new business model is because you actually have to settle the debt to get paid. And as far as it being labor intensive before the settlement is made, I don’t get that. It’s still the same process, sign the client up, manage expectation, deal with stuff that blows up, and when the client has money to settle then contact the creditor.
The FTC made its decision based on a wave of new companies that have entered the debt relief business in the past few years, Housser said.
“A lot of the new companies — them of the late-night television commercials — over-promised and under-delivered,” he said. “In the long run, this will make the survivors better companies. Do I think we will survive? Yes, but we had to take immediate action now to cut costs. Starting on Oct. 27, we are working for free.” – Source
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Jason,
I agree that companies deserve a chance to clean up and fly right. A Credit Solutions insider has told me that Credit Solutions laid off 2/3 of their staff and consolidated down to one building from three. It is said they have also instituted a new compensation program which rewards employees based on the number of debts that are actually settled and not the number of people sold into the program.
You can see a leak of their new sales terms here.
You bring up an excellent point about the business structure. Debt settlement began as a contingency fee industry. It wasn’t until later that players made a switch to the doomed advance fee model to bring money in quickly before services were rendered.
Steve
I am not whatsoever an advocate of debt settlement and I think generally credit counseling is an even bigger rip off because they make a lot of money hiding behind “non profit” and don’t disclose they are paid for by creditors. My biggest complaint is DS companies get nearly all of the negative attention when very poor success and lies and deceit still plague the credit counseling industry but the media refers to them as heros. Just look at Steve’s article link where this credit counseling CEO is making 12K a week! I work 60 hours a week and it takes me 3 months to make what he makes in one week. Sure sounds non-profit to me! Well maybe its true, the company doesn’t make a profit because the principles take it all!
https://getoutofdebt.org//21769/…
As far as Freedom lets compare the two “powerhouses” of debt settlement. At first I thought FDR was just like Credit Solutions, but not so. There’s certainly complaints about FDR, but they are a very big company and if they really have 80,000+ clients, it doesn’t take but 1% to have a bad experience and complain and you “A LOT” of complaints. Looking at their BBB report at least they responded to and resolved all of their complaints. I am impressed that they are taking care of their employees. I would bet they provide a very good work environment and treat their employees very well unlike other DS companies who are nothing more than hole in the wall sweat shop scams getting sued by their own employees in some cases. Looking at their website- received a Best Places to Work award in the bay area so the fact they are going above and beyond and giving severance to all laid off employees and even help them find jobs tells me something about their ethics, which to me is more important their their founders Standford MBAs.
It appears credit solutions is about the same size and has about the same amount of clients. Now Look at Freedom’s BBB report (249 complaints)
http://www.bbb.org/greater-san…
Now look at credit solutions report and keep in mind these companies are about the same size, at least for now they are. (1264 complaints, 6 unresolved)
http://www.bbb.org/dallas/busi…
Now maybe all this means is Credit Solutions deserves and industry F and FDR gets a passing C-, but I don’t think FDR deserves all of the lashings even if there are a handful of unsatisfied consumers. They also do not have any government actions pending, look at credit solutions who is dealing with several attorney generals suits. It would seem to be that the biggest companies in any industry are going to be subject to the most attacks.
BTY, most industry people know why the BBB gives all debt settlement companies a bad rating (including the 2 or 3 out there that aren’t rip offs) Here’s where it started- Interesting read. http://www.allbusiness.com/leg…
The reality is FDR and the rest of them should of started their businesses with no advance fees in the first place!or at least spread them out a lot more then they have been, then people like Meghan would still have their jobs.
Do SOME of these companies deserve a second chance to get their act together and comply with the FTC to provide services that are beneficial to select consumers? Yeah, I think some do.
I am not whatsoever an advocate of debt settlement and I think generally credit counseling is an even bigger rip off because they make a lot of money hiding behind “non profit” and don’t disclose they are paid for by creditors. My biggest complaint is DS companies get nearly all of the negative attention when very poor success and lies and deceit still plague the credit counseling industry but the media refers to them as heros. Just look at Steve’s article link where this credit counseling CEO is making 12K a week! I work 60 hours a week and it takes me 3 months to make what he makes in one week. Sure sounds non-profit to me! Well maybe its true, the company doesn’t make a profit because the principles take it all!
https://getoutofdebt.org//21769/you-know-your-credit-counseling-company-is-having-a-bad-day-when
As far as Freedom lets compare the two “powerhouses” of debt settlement. At first I thought FDR was just like Credit Solutions, but not so. There’s certainly complaints about FDR, but they are a very big company and if they really have 80,000+ clients, it doesn’t take but 1% to have a bad experience and complain and you “A LOT” of complaints. Looking at their BBB report at least they responded to and resolved all of their complaints. I am impressed that they are taking care of their employees. I would bet they provide a very good work environment and treat their employees very well unlike other DS companies who are nothing more than hole in the wall sweat shop scams getting sued by their own employees in some cases. Looking at their website- received a Best Places to Work award in the bay area so the fact they are going above and beyond and giving severance to all laid off employees and even help them find jobs tells me something about their ethics, which to me is more important their their founders Standford MBAs.
It appears credit solutions is about the same size and has about the same amount of clients. Now Look at Freedom’s BBB report (249 complaints)
http://www.bbb.org/greater-san-francisco/business-reviews/debt-settlement-companies/freedom-debt-relief-in-san-mateo-ca-65019
Now look at credit solutions report and keep in mind these companies are about the same size, at least for now they are. (1264 complaints, 6 unresolved)
http://www.bbb.org/dallas/business-reviews/debt-settlement-companies/credit-solutions-in-dallas-tx-90005445
Now maybe all this means is Credit Solutions deserves and industry F and FDR gets a passing C-, but I don’t think FDR deserves all of the lashings even if there are a handful of unsatisfied consumers. They also do not have any government actions pending, look at credit solutions who is dealing with several attorney generals suits. It would seem to be that the biggest companies in any industry are going to be subject to the most attacks.
BTY, most industry people know why the BBB gives all debt settlement companies a bad rating (including the 2 or 3 out there that aren’t rip offs) Here’s where it started- Interesting read. http://www.allbusiness.com/legal/legal-services-litigation/5822816-1.html
The reality is FDR and the rest of them should of started their businesses with no advance fees in the first place!or at least spread them out a lot more then they have been, then people like Meghan would still have their jobs.
Do SOME of these companies deserve a second chance to get their act together and comply with the FTC to provide services that are beneficial to select consumers? Yeah, I think some do.
Jason,
I agree that companies deserve a chance to clean up and fly right. A Credit Solutions insider has told me that Credit Solutions laid off 2/3 of their staff and consolidated down to one building from three. It is said they have also instituted a new compensation program which rewards employees based on the number of debts that are actually settled and not the number of people sold into the program.
You can see a leak of their new sales terms here.
You bring up an excellent point about the business structure. Debt settlement began as a contingency fee industry. It wasn’t until later that players made a switch to the doomed advance fee model to bring money in quickly before services were rendered.
Steve
Meghan,
Obviously my story touched a very raw nerve.
I just went back and read the story again and while you may see it as an attack against the company, it really isn’t.
As I said in the story, it was the Sacramento Business Journal that first reported the story. The quotes in my article came from the Sacramento article by Mark Anderson so feel free to contact him and call him a scum-bag as well.
The FTC rule was in the works for years. If you think that the business only had 60 days to change its operation and was surprised by what was coming you’d be grossly mistaken. Rather than work with the FTC to craft regulations that protected consumers, the debt settlement industry continued to push back and fight regulation which only took the industry closer and closer to the day for implementation. The last year was chewed up by the industry making all sorts of plans to sue the FTC and find ways around the laws rather than find ways to be successful and transition within the coming laws.
Houser’s own words to the FTC were “Thus, under this model, we do not believe that any debt settlement company, no matter how successful its results for consumers, could survive.” – Source. So either the people laid off are just in the first wave or a way was found to make things work by making a business decision and terminating a number of employees and paying them off with what appears to be a tremendous amount of cash in the bank from consumers.
A large percentage of current consumers paid their full fees for services early on in their program and have not settled debts, so where is all the cash those consumers paid? If it had been set aside and taken when the services were actually delivered there would be plenty of cash to carry a debt settlement business through a transition. If the company had been relying on new sales to pay for the services of consumers that had previously paid fees but not received services then it was operating as a giant Ponzi scheme as another commenter noted.
You ask why I don’t applaud the company for taking the steps necessary to comply with the rule. There is no need to applaud a company for taking steps to operate legally. It is the job and basic function of the company to do so.
I certainly feel badly for the employees getting laid off but this was not a surprise and if you think the industry didn’t know this was coming, someone isn’t telling you the entire story.
Rather than cross fingers and toes and hope the FTC was not going to put forward rules to protect consumers, debt settlement companies could have begun to make plans over a year ago for an orderly switch over to a more consumer focused business model that would not have impacted the staff so much. Banning advance fees or caping fees was always part of the FTC initiative. In fact banning advance fees for debt relief services is an approach the FTC took before with the credit repair industry.
In fact, on October 23, 2009 the Attorneys General of 41 states submitted their opinion that the advance fees needed to be banned and urged the FTC to adopt that model. – Source. Certainly that little clue was more than 60 days notice. That was a year heads-up.
Personally I think there is more to this story. Based on the information available, the Sacramento office staff was primarily admin and negotiators. Is that correct? So if that staff is being laid off who is going to do those jobs? Will they be handled out of Phoenix and San Mateo that are reported to be primarily sales hubs? Or is the company just wanting to focus more on sales and will farm out the backend work to another entity?
It is also interesting that the company has enough money to pay 100% salaries for six months but can’t find a way to reinvent itself in the same amount of time and make the switch from a front loaded fee model to a fee for service model.
Would you rather have six months of pay or would you and your co-workers rather have had the opportunity to work hard to make the switch and preserve your jobs?
Steve
Meghan, sorry to here about the loss your company is taking. But your boss is actually doing the right thing. He had a choice to either convert over to a new business model as performance model and see if it makes money sense to do so. But he had chosen a different route because either he feels the new model is not worth switching to or he just doesn’t want to deal with FTC regulators always on his back. If I had that much money to give out in severance( 6months). Switching to a new model would fit right in. so that doesnt make sense at all in my opinion. if you do performance that means the creditors are getting settlement offers that much sooner and not have to wait a year or 2 or 3 or 4 or never. I know being an employee you must take pride in where you work which is great, but remember, its not about you or your company, its about the protection of consumers who are being mislead and misguided. Its funny how you want to boast about settling 40million of consumers debt. So lets play with numbers. Assuming your company has a 40% Completion Rate(which is high and not normal according to GAO report),that means you have a total of $100,000,000 million total debt enrolled onto the program and settled 40% which would be $40,000,000 considered settled. Now the total fees you have collected off of $100,000,000 million is $15,000,000 million(based on 15% commission)so at 40% completion you truly earnede $6,000,000 million for the service performed and completed, while the other 60% failure you, you would keep an extra $9,000,000 millions in un earned fees. How is that helping the consumers? Its me saying, I’ll just cheat on 2 questions, but really work on the the final question without cheating and I’ll keep on doing this until i get caught. Sorry so sad so sad now go find a more respectable job.
Meghan, sorry to here about the loss your company is taking. But your boss is actually doing the right thing. He had a choice to either convert over to a new business model as performance model and see if it makes money sense to do so. But he had chosen a different route because either he feels the new model is not worth switching to or he just doesn’t want to deal with FTC regulators always on his back. If I had that much money to give out in severance( 6months). Switching to a new model would fit right in. so that doesnt make sense at all in my opinion. if you do performance that means the creditors are getting settlement offers that much sooner and not have to wait a year or 2 or 3 or 4 or never. I know being an employee you must take pride in where you work which is great, but remember, its not about you or your company, its about the protection of consumers who are being mislead and misguided. Its funny how you want to boast about settling 40million of consumers debt. So lets play with numbers. Assuming your company has a 40% Completion Rate(which is high and not normal according to GAO report),that means you have a total of $100,000,000 million total debt enrolled onto the program and settled 40% which would be $40,000,000 considered settled. Now the total fees you have collected off of $100,000,000 million is $15,000,000 million(based on 15% commission)so at 40% completion you truly earnede $6,000,000 million for the service performed and completed, while the other 60% failure you, you would keep an extra $9,000,000 millions in un earned fees. How is that helping the consumers? Its me saying, I’ll just cheat on 2 questions, but really work on the the final question without cheating and I’ll keep on doing this until i get caught. Sorry so sad so sad now go find a more respectable job.
Hello Meghan,
It is unfortunate for the people that are losing their jobs, but don’t shoot the messenger. Mr. Housser has been around long enough that he should have known he wouldn’t be able to get away with what he was doing to consumers forever. He should have adjusted his business model to put consumers above profit a long time ago. Instead he chose to continue to front load his fees to the detriment of his clients, and as recently as a few weeks ago was putting out BS press releases about how a front loaded model was beneficial to consumers.
Saying Freedom settled 40 million in debt and touting it as an accomplishment is sort of like saying Bernie Madoff was a great success because he made a lot of people rich. It sort of ignores all of the millions in dollars that freedom was paid service fees on that they didn’t settle.
Since you work there, I certainly don’t expect you to take a step back and see this for what it is, but if Mr. Housser really believes that his former fee model was beneficial to consumers, then it is for the greater good, that he either closes his company down or complies with a business model that will not allow him to put his misguided views into practice to the detriment of consumers in trouble.
That is certainly great that Mr. Housser is giving full severance, and he may certainly be a very nice guy, but the reality is, he has known, or should have known a long time ago that this was going to happen and taken steps to run his business correctly. By definition, if he cannot comply with the new rules, then that means he did not set aside enough fees to cover his legacy costs. He was running a quasi ponzi scheme and now the jig is up. He claims he has to charge all of a consumers fees upfront to prevent some kind of mystical power shift to the creditors. As if Freedom ever had any power over the creditors in the first place. Well it now appears that he needed to charge all of the money upfront, because he wasn’t setting enough of the money aside to cover the services that all of your existing clients already paid for. If he did, he would easily be able to make the transition.
You claim your thoughts and hearts go out to the people that are affected by this???? I assume you mean your clients???? You know, the ones that paid all of that money upfront under the promise that this company would use the fees collected in a responsible way to insure the longevity of the company and the ability to deliver the promised service that payment was demanded upfront for. Seems to me that instead of Housser paying for six months severance pay to employees that enrolled consumers into a program that they shouldn’t be enrolled into, that money should be sent back to the clients. After all, it is their money.
He must certainly downsize the company of course. Because now the company has to force itself to only enroll qualified consumers that can settle their debt in a short amount of time. This is a stark contrast to enrolling anyone with a payment and a pulse, which most debt settlement companies do. So the company will have to down size and like magic, because of the advance fee ban, the goals of the company will actually line up with the goals of their clients. Hmm, I wonder why so many companies are against this? Perhaps it is because the goals of your company up until now have been at odds with the best interests of your clients, and by forcing you to make this change, it is going to put a damper on the money making machine that you have going on over there.
There are plenty of settlement companies that have been charging a fair, performance based fee for years and have very successful programs. They are not having the problems that you are having over at freedom. So instead of blaming Steve, the FTC and anyone else that you can think of, perhaps, the blame actually lies much closer than you will ever care to admit.
Damon Day’s Last Blog Post: http://DamonDay.com/1804/ – Freedom Debt Relief says Upfront Fees Help Consumers – I say Bullshit – What Say You?
What a scum-bag you are to make an attack on a company and its teammates at a sad time like this. Karma is a killer.
This says more about you, no matter what your opinion or games that you play, than it does about Mr. Housser or anyone else. By the way, wouldn’t you applaud a company taking actions to comply with the FTC rules. Wouldn’t you applaud that Freedom actually settles $40mm of debts for its clients monthly. Wouldn’t you too have serious changes to be made if the FTC issued a final rule (that was unknown in its final state) that gave you 60 days to totall change your business.
Seems like common sense. And, yes. I work for Freedom. Nothing to hide here. No games going on… but you should be ashamed. My thoughts and heart go out to the people and their families that are impacted by this. Btw, you certainly don’t care… but Mr. Housser offered up to 6 months wind down, full severance for 100% of the staff, retention bonuses and has acted more admirably than any other company I have ever seen wind-down. Gripe about that somewhere.
Think about what you do and how you live your life.
What a scum-bag you are to make an attack on a company and its teammates at a sad time like this. Karma is a killer.
This says more about you, no matter what your opinion or games that you play, than it does about Mr. Housser or anyone else. By the way, wouldn’t you applaud a company taking actions to comply with the FTC rules. Wouldn’t you applaud that Freedom actually settles $40mm of debts for its clients monthly. Wouldn’t you too have serious changes to be made if the FTC issued a final rule (that was unknown in its final state) that gave you 60 days to totall change your business.
Seems like common sense. And, yes. I work for Freedom. Nothing to hide here. No games going on… but you should be ashamed. My thoughts and heart go out to the people and their families that are impacted by this. Btw, you certainly don’t care… but Mr. Housser offered up to 6 months wind down, full severance for 100% of the staff, retention bonuses and has acted more admirably than any other company I have ever seen wind-down. Gripe about that somewhere.
Think about what you do and how you live your life.
Hello Meghan,It is unfortunate for the people that are losing their jobs, but don’t shoot the messenger. Mr. Housser has been around long enough that he should have known he wouldn’t be able to get away with what he was doing to consumers forever. He should have adjusted his business model to put consumers above profit a long time ago. Instead he chose to continue to front load his fees to the detriment of his clients, and as recently as a few weeks ago was putting out BS press releases about how a front loaded model was beneficial to consumers.Saying Freedom settled 40 million in debt and touting it as an accomplishment is sort of like saying Bernie Madoff was a great success because he made a lot of people rich. It sort of ignores all of the millions in dollars that freedom was paid service fees on that they didn’t settle.Since you work there, I certainly don’t expect you to take a step back and see this for what it is, but if Mr. Housser really believes that his former fee model was beneficial to consumers, then it is for the greater good, that he either closes his company down or complies with a business model that will not allow him to put his misguided views into practice to the detriment of consumers in trouble.That is certainly great that Mr. Housser is giving full severance, and he may certainly be a very nice guy, but the reality is, he has known, or should have known a long time ago that this was going to happen and taken steps to run his business correctly. By definition, if he cannot comply with the new rules, then that means he did not set aside enough fees to cover his legacy costs. He was running a quasi ponzi scheme and now the jig is up. He claims he has to charge all of a consumers fees upfront to prevent some kind of mystical power shift to the creditors. As if Freedom ever had any power over the creditors in the first place. Well it now appears that he needed to charge all of the money upfront, because he wasn’t setting enough of the money aside to cover the services that all of your existing clients already paid for. If he did, he would easily be able to make the transition. You claim your thoughts and hearts go out to the people that are affected by this???? I assume you mean your clients???? You know, the ones that paid all of that money upfront under the promise that this company would use the fees collected in a responsible way to insure the longevity of the company and the ability to deliver the promised service that payment was demanded upfront for. Seems to me that instead of Housser paying for six months severance pay to employees that enrolled consumers into a program that they shouldn’t be enrolled into, that money should be sent back to the clients. After all, it is their money. He must certainly downsize the company of course. Because now the company has to force itself to only enroll qualified consumers that can settle their debt in a short amount of time. This is a stark contrast to enrolling anyone with a payment and a pulse, which most debt settlement companies do. So the company will have to down size and like magic, because of the advance fee ban, the goals of the company will actually line up with the goals of their clients. Hmm, I wonder why so many companies are against this? Perhaps it is because the goals of your company up until now have been at odds with the best interests of your clients, and by forcing you to make this change, it is going to put a damper on the money making machine that you have going on over there. There are plenty of settlement companies that have been charging a fair, performance based fee for years and have very successful programs. They are not having the problems that you are having over at freedom. So instead of blaming Steve, the FTC and anyone else that you can think of, perhaps, the blame actually lies much closer than you will ever care to admit. Damon Day’s Last Blog Post Freedom Debt Relief says Upfront Fees Help Consumers.
Meghan,
Obviously my story touched a very raw nerve.
I just went back and read the story again and while you may see it as an attack against the company, it really isn’t.
As I said in the story, it was the Sacramento Business Journal that first reported the story. The quotes in my article came from the Sacramento article by Mark Anderson so feel free to contact him and call him a scum-bag as well.
The FTC rule was in the works for years. If you think that the business only had 60 days to change its operation and was surprised by what was coming you’d be grossly mistaken. Rather than work with the FTC to craft regulations that protected consumers, the debt settlement industry continued to push back and fight regulation which only took the industry closer and closer to the day for implementation. The last year was chewed up by the industry making all sorts of plans to sue the FTC and find ways around the laws rather than find ways to be successful and transition within the coming laws.
Houser’s own words to the FTC were “Thus, under this model, we do not believe that any debt settlement company, no matter how successful its results for consumers, could survive.” – Source. So either the people laid off are just in the first wave or a way was found to make things work by making a business decision and terminating a number of employees and paying them off with what appears to be a tremendous amount of cash in the bank from consumers.
A large percentage of current consumers paid their full fees for services early on in their program and have not settled debts, so where is all the cash those consumers paid? If it had been set aside and taken when the services were actually delivered there would be plenty of cash to carry a debt settlement business through a transition. If the company had been relying on new sales to pay for the services of consumers that had previously paid fees but not received services then it was operating as a giant Ponzi scheme as another commenter noted.
You ask why I don’t applaud the company for taking the steps necessary to comply with the rule. There is no need to applaud a company for taking steps to operate legally. It is the job and basic function of the company to do so.
I certainly feel badly for the employees getting laid off but this was not a surprise and if you think the industry didn’t know this was coming, someone isn’t telling you the entire story.
Rather than cross fingers and toes and hope the FTC was not going to put forward rules to protect consumers, debt settlement companies could have begun to make plans over a year ago for an orderly switch over to a more consumer focused business model that would not have impacted the staff so much. Banning advance fees or caping fees was always part of the FTC initiative. In fact banning advance fees for debt relief services is an approach the FTC took before with the credit repair industry.
In fact, on October 23, 2009 the Attorneys General of 41 states submitted their opinion that the advance fees needed to be banned and urged the FTC to adopt that model. – Source. Certainly that little clue was more than 60 days notice. That was a year heads-up.
Personally I think there is more to this story. Based on the information available, the Sacramento office staff was primarily admin and negotiators. Is that correct? So if that staff is being laid off who is going to do those jobs? Will they be handled out of Phoenix and San Mateo that are reported to be primarily sales hubs? Or is the company just wanting to focus more on sales and will farm out the backend work to another entity?
It is also interesting that the company has enough money to pay 100% salaries for six months but can’t find a way to reinvent itself in the same amount of time and make the switch from a front loaded fee model to a fee for service model.
Would you rather have six months of pay or would you and your co-workers rather have had the opportunity to work hard to make the switch and preserve your jobs?
Steve