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Transcripts of Attorney Robert Lock, John Hagenstein, Brad Daley, and Other Speakers Selling Various CCDN/Legal Debt Cure Schemes

By on December 22, 2009
Transcripts of Attorney Robert Lock,  John Hagenstein, Brad Daley,  and Other Speakers Selling  Various CCDN/Legal Debt Cure Schemes

This information below comes from a lawsuit, Southwood v. The Credit Card Solution, and shows you the language and phrases used to sell this type of debt relief sales pitch that has resulted in many, many people losing their money and not receive the services promised.

I am posting these transcripts here so you can learn what to avoid.

Lock Hagenstein Daley et al transcripts

1 Uncovering the Truth by Attorney Robert Lock 6:33

One of the things that you need to understand when you look at this system, and when you hear attorneys like myself and others out there question the authority of the banks to issue credit cards. You don’t have to take my word for it. You can use the tools that we have to go out and get that information yourself. I want to tell you a story about that and what really solidified in my mind the positions that we take in these cases.

And what happened was this. I filed a motion for summary judgment, and in that motion, I said that this case should be thrown out and judgment should be entered on behalf of my client because the bank acted ultra vires to their corporate charter because they don’t even have the authority to issue credit cards, and therefore they can’t come in and claim a contract on a credit card. Now I expected that my research might be faulty. I couldn’t find anything and I did a lot of hours, but I was just so conditioned to believe that banks have authority, of course they have authority because there’s trillions of dollars in credit card money out there and the banks have been doing this for forty years. I just assumed, but in getting into this area, I stop assuming anything and I start to question radically, and so I raised the issue.

The response that I got back was very interesting. The bank stated that of course they had the authority to issue credit cards, and they had the authority because the Supreme Court of the United States had specifically interpreted the National Bank Act, 12 U.S.C. 24-7, to authorize the issuance of credit cards by the banks, and they had a really good quote down there that said banks issue credit cards. And as soon as I saw that, my heart sank, and I just thought that, you know, I didn’t believe, even though I couldn’t find the research, I didn’t believe this could be true, and so I just got my hat handed to me on this thing. And after I sat there for a little bit in disappointment, thinking what the judge was going to say when I came into court, raising, what, you know, appeared to be a frivolous argument, at least that’s what the bank was saying, what was going to happen.

But then I stopped, and I did what every good lawyer does, and I went and I pulled the cases, and they had three cases that they said the Supreme Court specifically interpreted the National Bank Act to authorize them to issue credit cards. That was the statement in their response. And when I pulled those cases, it is the most curious thing, the first one that had the great quote that said banks can issue credit cards was actually a footnote in a background section of a 45-page antitrust case that had nothing to do with the interpretation of the National Banking Act. In fact, it didn’t mention that at all. The second one was Supreme Court interpreting the tax code to determine whether certain expenses associated with the credit card business were deductible. And the third one, and the only one that dealt with an actual interpretation of the National Bank Act, didn’t relate in any way to credit cards. It actually was interpreting whether or not the National Bank Act authorized the banks to get into the travel agency business.

Okay, so by going in and pulling their cases, I was able to determine that not only don’t they have authority, but they just lied to the court, and misrepresented three cases that they claim, unequivocally, the Supreme Court interpreted the National Bank Act to authorize them to issue credit cards, when in fact those cases said nothing of the kind. And, and, I gotta tell you, at that point in time, that really gave me pause, because when I saw that, I realized, oh my God, they don’t have authority to do what they’re doing. Here’s this huge, incredibly powerful, and very dangerous entity, this industry that we’ve allowed to grow, and that Congress has allowed to grow, and it’s out there and it’s unregulated, and they don’t even have authority to do what they’re doing.

Now I don’t expect a state court judge for the money that they’re making given the fact that they can be unseated, I don’t expect a judge to go forward and invalidate this industry. But I raise it because I want them to understand that I know, and then I give them other reasons to throw out these cases, but I want them to know, because I believe that if a judge takes an oath, like an attorney takes an oath, to support and uphold the terms of the Constitution of the United States and the state in which they’re licensed, that they better do it, and that they better look critically. Now I don’t expect them to step up and say, no, this contract can’t be recovered on because the bank was acting ultra vires. I do expect them to then stop and look very critically at the objections and arguments I raise with respect to the evidence, and if we do that, each of us, in front of every judge that is, that is determining these cases, and we do it consistently, and we do it without raising any wild patriot arguments, we do it just raising standard legal arguments with solid foundations in law and fact, no only can we be successful for the individuals, consumers involved, but we can also start a movement towards reform of this credit card industry, we can finally start to get control of an industry that’s out of control. And we can finally, for the generations to come, get this system to where it can be used for the benefit of all people and not just a small group making obscene usurious profits on the backs of hard-working American families.

2 Attorney Robert Lock on FSEI Audio 5:34

You know, I wouldn’t be here with Financial Solutions if I didn’t have confidence in theories and strategies that they were, that they were pursuing and if I didn’t have confidence in the abilities of their paralegals as well as their customer service people. I know that there are a lot of companies out there, and understand what my, understand what my interest is here.

My interest is to, and my mission, if you will, is counteract what I see as a significant problem in this country right now, and there are, there are significant statistical analyses to back it up, and if you want to you can go on to the Federal Reserve’s website, particularly the Philadelphia Federal Reserve Board, and look at their payment card center and go out and look at some of the White Papers that are out there that deal with some of the issues we deal with on a regular basis, and you look at the level of debt that this country is assuming, and how families aren’t just, you know, this isn’t women’s lib that is, that is, pulling women out of the home and saying, you know what, I don’t care about my family, I’m gonna, they’ll be OK, and I’ll take care of them anyway because I’m good. I’m going out in the workforce and I’m going to liberate myself and I’m going to become something. We’ve got, we’ve got families who are, who have both spouses forced to go into the workplace in order to be able to deal with their debt payments, which continuously rise, with credit terms that continuously change. You’ve got, you’ve got, I mean the statistics are just amazing, and the number of people that are in debt that are retiring or near retiring, are at levels that we’ve never seen, and we’re talking about the Great Generation here, people that freed this world for democracy, republican democracy, not what we have here.

All right, so, so that’s what drives me when I look at, okay, there’s an incredibly sophisticated, organized creditor’s bar, and they, and then there’s the collections agents, and they all have associations, they’ve got networks, and they share information, they share strategies, and they say oh did you hear about what these idiots said, they were talking about the Constitution and stuff like that. And I mean they’re derisive of the fact that people are actually trying to fight back against this beast that is seeking to essentially own every single thing and every single person in this world. And if you can show me statistics that say that they’re not, I’m happy to look at them, but I look at information coming out of the Federal Reserve’s own website that shows me exactly what’s happening.

And so what I’m going for here is, I want to develop a national network of attorneys, and that’s what I’m doing right now, and attorneys that deal in this area, because what I saw was, I walked into court, and I saw all these lawyers getting up there and handling the collection side of the cases, and all these poor people on the pro se side stepping up. And everybody’s looking at them like they’re dirtbags, oh God you scumbag, you couldn’t keep your, you couldn’t pay for your debt.

Well you know what, over 60% of the people in this country are having problems with debt right now, and that, and that, percentage is rising every day, okay, and it’s not because they’re bad people and it’s not because they’re bad managers and it’s not because they’re scumbags who don’t handle their obligations. It’s because the banks change the terms of the game every single day. OK, yeah, you got your payment in on the 16th when it was due, but you know what, it got here at 1:15 and we changed and it’s supposed to be here at 1:00 so you got a $15 late charge. Sorry I didn’t tell you about that, but you know what, I really don’t have to because the contract that you didn’t sign that I mailed to you that maybe you didn’t read that said I can do whatever I want to do, okay.

What I’m seeking to do is develop relationships with attorneys and quality organizations so that there’s representation out there to help people to be able to go up and fight these things, cause they’re out of control. There’s no regulation, there are no usury laws that are in existence in this country anymore, which means that the banks can charge whatever they want, whenever they want. They can change their fees, they can add new fees, they can do anything that they want to in order to make sure that your job in paying what you feel is your responsibility, because we take our contracts seriously in this country, all right, they do their best to make sure that you are running like a rat on a treadmill.

And so when I associate with somebody like Financial Solutions, it’s because I’ve gone in and I’ve spoken with the people, I’ve dealt with the people, I’ve analyzed the research that they’ve done, the legal research that they’ve done. I’ve analyzed the strategies that they’re using and the theories that they have found, and I look at them and I understand from what I know of this area, that Financial Solutions is a reputable and strong company that I want to associate with in order to help people to get out from underneath what I feel to be a cancer that has to be stopped. And since we can’t count on our legislators, our congressmen, to go out and do what’s necessary to regulate this industry, then the only way to do that is through what I’m doing, and that is, doing it in court and beating them one consumer at a time, and trying to get them to the point where we can force them into a situation where they’ll accept reform.

3 15 Minute Presentation Overview 15:57

LEROY: I’d like to take this opportunity to welcome each and every one of you to the Quest International Contributors Presentation featuring our very special guest experts Financial Solutions, and on this presentation you will learn how by utilizing the services and education of Financial Solutions, you can legally, lawfully, morally, and ethically terminate your unsecured debt without bankruptcy, consolidation, or refinancing, and take the steps to live a positive and more fulfilling financial future. And we’re very privileged to have with us Eugene from Washington State. He’s one of the many outstanding experts from Financial Solutions, and he’ll be sharing with us his very exciting and powerful education and information. And folks, before we begin, I should make it clear that this guest presentation is not legal advice. Legal advice is given by a Bar licensed attorney who is an officer of the court. Now Financial Solutions does not ever give legal advice. Financial Solutions provides you with education, which you may consider assistance and possibly consider as counsel, and the right to assistance of counsel is protected in the Sixth Amendment of the Constitution. And folks, without further ado, here is Eugene from Washington state. Once again, good evening and welcome to all of you.

EUGENE: Thank you, Leroy. Can you hear me?

LEROY: I can hear you loud and clear.

EUGENE: I appreciate you taking introductions, and spending your time freely to assist us here at Financial Solutions. Thank you all for all you do. I appreciate it.

LEROY: Absolutely.

EUGENE: And hello folks. Thank you for joining us this evening. We hope to, by the end of the call, educate you as to how you can legally, lawfully, morally, and ethically assist you in walking away from this burden of what we call unsecured debt here. And let’s start off tonight’s call by explaining what debt is, and debts are basically liabilities or obligations that are paid to another, and basically that’s when expenses are greater than income, being in bondage to Chase Manhattan, Citibank, the credit card companies, or the banks, so to speak.

Now at Financial Solutions, we’re about the solution, which is the answer to a problem, an action or a process to solve a very difficult situation, and we feel that credit card debt and the burden of it is a very difficult situation. So Financial Solutions, like I said, can show you how to legally and lawfully, as well as morally and ethically, educate you and assist you out of this burden of unsecured debt. Now our information and education here is based on the United States federal and Supreme Court case decisions, Title 15 of the United States Code, Section 1692, which is the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. Also in that Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, section 1601. We also use the Fair Credit Billing Act, the Uniform Commercial Code section 203. Many bank and Truth in Lending laws are included in our process too.

Now at Financial Solutions we believe that financial independence is your right, and you have the right to stand up for the actual laws that are there to protect you, the consumer, and if you don’t know what your rights are, folks, then you don’t have any. And that’s what we’re here to educate you, being a full-service company that will walk you through and assist you through this process here. We have customer relations in our office, Monday through Friday, 9 to 5 Pacific Standard Time. They’re there to educate you as well as to answer any questions and to hold your hand throughout the process should you have, should any concerns come up. That many educational services included in our packages and online resources library, there’s over a hundred articles there to assist you and educate you on topics such as medical bills, student loans, credit, debt, things of that nature. There’s also documentation there, and tools that you can utilize at your leisure to, let’s say, restore your credit rating of any negative entries or derogatory entries that may be on the credit report. There’s documentation to assist you in remedying types of other unsecured debt that we do not work with directly here at Financial Solutions, such as medical bills, student loans, things of that nature.

We have, like I said, customer relations. We can do three-way calls with you. To get any of your questions answered, just three-way in with the person who invited you to this presentation. They can connect you to one of the debt specialists to educate you and get your questions answered should any arise throughout the process. We have affiliate website programs should you choose to share this information with your friends or coworkers or loved ones, basically to do your due diligence so they can do their due diligence, making you not be the expert here. Because this information, folks, is not new. It’s just new if you’ve never heard of it before, but it’s what the ultra-wealthy and well-connected have known for years, and have utilized this information to basically create and maintain wealth in their life.

Now the types of debt we work with here are unsecured debt where there is no collateral or property attached, basically an unsecured debt where there was an extension of credit, or like I said there was a loan with no collateral. Let’s talk, for example, most importantly here, what is credit? Credit is the exact opposite of money, and money which is defined by Congress as legal tender for all payments of debt, is defined in 31 USCA section 392. Now the section, folks, basically describes that all coin and currency issued by the United States Government is legal tender for all debts, public and private. Now credit is a promise that is not based on money, it’s solely based on your signature. Keep in mind that had you not signed the credit card application, even though it was pre-approved, they would not have processed your loan application and sent you the plastic card. They would have sent you the application back and said, Mr. Orensis, please sign on the dotted line, we will process your application and send it back to you. That’s a very good indicator that our signatures are very, very valuable, and that will make more sense later on in the presentation here

Next word we’re gonna look at is a key word in our process in what we use here, is ultra vires, okay, and for a complete legal definition, I recommend that you all get a Black’s Law Dictionary or a legal law dictionary. And ultra vires is a contract made by a corporation beyond the scope of its corporate powers is unlawful. Now banks’ corporate powers are specifically listed in their corporate charter, and for over a hundred years, the courts have consistently ruled that banks cannot lend their credit, but can only lend their money. Now because no charter of a bank or a credit card company, all of which by the way are corporations, give them permission to lend credit, and Congress never gave them the permission to create money. All such loans of credit are, key word, ultra vires or unlawful.

Now banks have been acting outside of their corporate authority by enticing people with what we call loans. Let’s say, for example, Leroy and myself wanted to start a credit card company and we had ten million dollars between us. Leroy has five, I have five, together we have ten million dollars, and we’re gonna create 10,000 credit card applications, each with a $5,000 limit. Now 10,000 times 5,000 is 50 million dollars. Leroy and I only had 10 million dollars to begin with. That would mean we just created 40 million dollars out of thin air. Leroy and I would be extending credit, not giving out loans, and that is exactly what has taken place here, folks, with your signature. And for example when you entered into the loan or credit contract, you signed a note or a contract promising to pay them back, and you agreed to repay this loan. This contract supposedly qualifies you to receive the money or the credit, but did they provide full disclosure of all the terms of the agreement. I’m gonna ask a few questions of you tonight online. Ask yourself were you disclosed this information when you participated in signing this alleged contract that has burdened you with this debt.

Were you told your contract you signed your promissory note was going to be converted into a negotiable instrument by the bank, or the credit card company, and become an asset on their accounting books? They definitely did not disclose that information, and what happens, folks, is when you sign your name on the dotted line, that application becomes a promissory note, which is flipped over and endorsed as a depository note to the bank, and they deposit it on their asset side, and issue you the liability, because they have to balance their books. For every asset there must be a liability, and for every debit there must be a credit, for you accounting majors out there online tonight, they have to balance. So they take your signature and monetize your note, depositing into the bank your name, unbeknownst to you, and have created an asset for the bank, and issue you the liability, in forms of interest, and over the limit fees, and annual fees, and late fees.

Next question, did they tell you that your signature on that note made it money, according to the Uniform Commercial Code, Section 1-201(24), and again, Section 3-104. I was not disclosed that information. I’ll repeat that. Did they tell you that your signature on that note made it money, according to the Uniform Commercial Code, Section 1-201(24), and again in Section 3-104.

Next question, were you told that your promissory note would be taken, recorded as an asset, and be sold for cash without valuable consideration given to obtain your note? I was not disclosed that information three years ago, folks, and I am a product of the product. I walked away from 30,000 myself of unsecured credit card debt without bankruptcy or consolidating, and no I was not disclosed that information. Did the bank tell you, or did the bank give you, a deposit slip after receipt for the money that you gave them, just as the bank would normally provide you when you make a deposit to the bank, they being the credit card company. And I was not given a slip, or no form of receipt for my deposit.

Now don’t believe just what we’re saying here, folks, source the information yourself. We have many, many court cases where the Supreme Court has set precedent. We’re going to cover a few of them here tonight online. First one we’re gonna look at is Howard Foster Company versus Citizens National Bank, evidence of debt are not money and are not legal tender. Checks, credit cards, lines of credit, demand deposits, credit, letters of credit, and checkbook money. Next one we’re gonna take a look at is State versus Mellon. Checks, drafts, money orders, and banknotes are not lawful money of the United States. Next one is Merchants Bank versus Biard (sp?), a national bank cannot lend its credit to another by becoming surety, endorser, or guarantor for him, such an act being, key word, ultra vires. That’s Merchants Bank versus Biard (Bayard?). Look at a couple more here. Next one is Community Fed and Savings Loan versus Phillips. Key word, act is ultra vires when corporation is without authority to perform it under any circumstances for any purpose. By doctrine of ultra vires, a contract made beyond the scope of its corporate powers is unlawful. Remember, folks, banks have in their charter the authority to lend money, and we’ve already covered that money is the exact opposite of credit. They do not have the authority to lend credit, and so you can only charge interest on one thing, and that is money, not credit, and so when they are charging interest on credit, they are in direct violation of all usury law.

And like I said, there are many more cases to prove that banks are participating in deceptive banking practices, which is why we’re going to request a zero balance due statement, and many banking institutions comply with us, because fraud is a criminal offense. Now how does this program work? Basically, folks, what you’re going to do is get together your most current statement from the credit card company and/or the debt collector, and what you’re gonna do is fax it in to our office. We’re going to tailor the document response that is necessary for your particular situation. It will be uploaded into your back office, which you will receive as you become a member at Financial Solutions. You’ll be able to password protect, log in to your back office online, download the document that has been tailored for you for that account, and you’re going to make sure you print it out, read over what’s sent to you, and you’re going to sign it and mail it off to the credit card company and/or the debt collector. Any correspondence that you receive, if any, you’re going to fax back into our offices, and we’re going to tailor the next response for you to send out to the credit card company or debt collector.

Once you download your document, it will be date and time stamped, and you also will receive an email when your next letter is to go out for the next response. And basically what we have here is a paper writing campaign where we’re disputing the legality of the contract and any validity of any alleged debt. And folks, we’re not saying we don’t want to pay our debts, because we are all law-abiding people here. We want to pay any lawful debt that we legally owe. We just want to make sure a lawful and valid debt exists here. We want to see some ledgering where the bank has actually risked their assets and actually put something at risk to you the borrower or co-borrower, and we want to, there’s a few questions we’re asking.

Now we use well-established laws like the U.S. Supreme Court rulings, many legal procedures and principles are included in the documentation. Now the banks cannot legally issue you credit and they’re involving you in fraud, which is why we’re gonna let them know that we do not wish to be a party of their fraud, and they must stop this immediately. Now a contract that is illegal at the time of signing is null and void, and since the credit card company did not disclose to you the fraud, and since they knew about it when you signed the credit application, this contract becomes null and void. Now like I said, we’re gonna request that the account balance is zeroed and they must send you a statement to acknowledge this, and you can get back to the person that invited you to this call and they’ll be able to log in to their back office and show you many current examples of wins against the various credit card companies and many cases where we’ve seen zero balances and it is either purged from the record or if it is in the debt collector phase, many cases dismissed or debt collection response of we have ceased all of our collection activities. So there’s many scenarios here, all of which are good that I just stated. And like I said, folks, there’s many Supreme Court case rulings and decisions on the matter are included in our documentation, and any evidence of a lawful debt or agreement must be presented to you the customer in a timely manner.

I also mentioned that we have an online resource library in your back office that you’ll have access to that deals with issues of money, credit, debt, judicial system, asset protection, things of that nature. There’s collection letters in there, and letters should you choose to remedy yourselves like I said in other areas of unsecured debt, medical bills, student loans, things of that nature. We have many life preservers built into our process, folks, for the client who may feel a little uneasy about a particular account throughout the process. We’ve included some Debt Settlement 101 paperwork and education in our back office for you, and it was basically critiqued by a gentleman out of California who works exclusively with Financial Solutions. He runs the number one debt negotiation firm in California. Now we’re not debt negotiation here, but we do offer that as a remedy for some of our clients who may feel a little uneasy about the program. Also included back there is arbitration, private arbitration information that we use as merely another piece of evidence, as a tool should you choose to remedy the situation. However, those items are not needed. We are in the full service debt elimination arena here, and we’re going to assist you until the debt is gone, but we do like to let people know up front, because there are life preservers built into our program here should you choose to go that way with it.

And basically, folks, now that you’ve been informed concerning what the United States Supreme Court has stated, and the fraud that the banks are committing, you gotta ask yourself, do you want to continue to keep supporting fraud?

4 FAQ with Attorney Robert Lock 44:25

FEMALE VOICE: Let’s go ahead and take the first question.

KELLY (caller): Hi, my name is Kelly and I have outstanding credit. I just got my credit score the other day and it’s like 735, but yet I have a high debt ratio. I’m wondering if I do move forward with this, will my credit score go down?

MALE VOICE: That is a great question, Kelly, and if you don’t mind, Mr. Lock will address that, and if you want to add to it, please do, and what you’re looking at, Kelly, is a situation where we cannot always have our cake and eat it too.

KELLY: Right.

MALE VOICE: And it actually says in your credit card agreement when you dispute the bill that they are not to report to the credit bureaus. But the bankster gangsters, being the unscrupulous people that they are, often will report, you know, possibly a 30, 60, 90 day late, and so we like to give you full disclosure that that can happen. If it does happen, rest assured that we do have the resources in that online resource library, which, I’m glad you brought that up, where you can actually restore any erroneous, inaccurate, or derogatory entries from the, or unverifiable entries, excuse me, from the credit bureaus. Now that is a paper-writing campaign as well, and if you choose, we can refer you to an outside source, which, they are very successful at doing their contest program online, in which it takes about 30 days or less to go through their program. And that can be something that can be done simultaneously while going through the debt elimination program so that they can monitor your credit report to make sure there are no derogatory entries put onto there.

KELLY: Well, how much do you think, how much can it make it go down? How much could it make the score go down? And will it affect it drastically, to where I’m not even looked at for a loan, and, since I’m in the A+ right now?

LOCK: You know what, that’s a good question. You can kind of jump in here.

MALE VOICE: Oh, please do.

LOCK: You know, when, I think that different people sit in different situations, and when you look at that kind of a situation, if you’re getting ready to go and buy a house or a condo or a vacation home or something like that, and you’re looking to go do a high, a high level loan, or you’re looking to go buy a new car, etcetera, and you’re looking to keep your, obviously, your interest payments down and you don’t want to have to mess around with approval processes and things like that, then this process is going to bruise your credit. Now how much, nobody can say. It just depends on how much of the stuff actually gets put onto your credit report that you have to work to take off. The one thing that you have to realize is that even with a, you could have great credit today and next month, somebody could steal your identity, somebody, you know, different things could get thrown on there from somebody else’s credit report. There’s a million different ways that your credit could be bruised independent of this process

KELLY: Well, I’m just trying not to affect, I’m getting married soon and I’m trying not to affect my future husband’s credit, cause currently, and he knows that my credit is outstanding, and yet if I do this, is it gonna affect him as well. I mean, you know, I gotta consider both parties.

ART: Hey Robert, Art here as well.

LOCK: Hey Art, how are you man?

ART: And if I could add into this as well, that is a perfect example of what this nice lady is going through, I had great credit at one time, but I had a huge debt load, and sometimes what they don’t tell you, this may or may not be the situation, is that if you have great credit and a high debt load, your debt to income ratio, more than likely, you’re gonna hit a wall where you will not get any more credit, and it’s like having bad credit even though your credit score’s perfect, but you have a high debt load. If your debt-to-income ratio is out of whack there, you will not get any more credit, doesn’t matter how high your score is, and so you may or may not know that, but just so you know, I walked away from a 60 grand, probably about 8 years ago, my wife 30 grand, cause we did not cosign on each other, and if we did cosign on it with me, I just released her off that card, and I did it first, and it didn’t affect her credit at all. And so there’s definitely things you can do. The fact that you’re not married yet, it definitely won’t affect him at all cause you’re not even married.

KELLY: Right.

LOCK: And I would add to that too Kelly, if that’s what’s really a concern of yours, then go through the process here as well as get yourself going with the credit sweepers to simultaneously clean up any derogatories that may show should they appear, and they’ll do that as you’re going through the process here at Financial Solutions.

KELLY: Okay, yeah, well that’s what I wanted to know. Thank you.

MALE VOICE: You’re welcome. Great question.

DAVID (caller): Well in that situation, could you just continue to make your payments?

ART?: Who’s speaking right now?

DAVID: David.

ART? Hey David, how you doing. Great question. You actually, if you were to continue to make payments, and you have every right to do that, we’re all about choice here, but if you were continue to make payments along with sending our dispute letter, David, they would actually rip up our dispute letter, or your dispute letter I should say, and cash your payment all day long, and you’re kind of making two different statements there. You’re saying one, by a letter of dispute, that this is fraud and I don’t want to participate in it any longer, but at the same time, I do want to participate because I feel I owe you some money cause I’m sending you a payment.

LOCK?: Yeah, and looking at it at a different level as well, Eugene, and that’s a perfect description, let me look at it from a legal perspective, David, because what you’re looking at is, you have to look at this from a commercial perspective. When you write in and you dispute the debt, what you’re saying is that you’re dishonoring the negotiable instrument that’s underlying the relationship that they declare exists between the two of you. And when you pay on that negotiable instrument, then what you’ve done is, you’ve negated that dispute. So it’s impossible to do the two at the same time.

DAVID: Okay. Well, I was told that you could, by a different company.

LOCK: You can, but it would definitely muddy up the process.


LOCK: Great question.

FEMALE VOICE: Do you have any other questions?

DAVID: Well I have a thousand questions, but [laughs] generally then I guess it’s good to avoid Citibank, Discover, companies like that, MBNA, are they tough also?

LOCK: Those are, I would look at those as the axis of, axis of evil.

DAVID: Uh huh.

LOCK: If you think about who out there is going to be the most aggressive in these environs, it’s definitely them. Now the one thing that I’ll tell you from going up against them on a daily basis is that these guys have cases and complaints when I litigate against them that have so many holes in them because of the level of problems in their system. I mean they can’t, the problem is that when, it’s like the classic old adage, okay, when you start telling a lie, and you tell another lie, and you tell another lie, eventually you don’t even remember what lie you told. But you still gotta cover yourself, and that’s where we exist right now, in what I do, going up against the banks in court. So for example I go up against Citibank. Citibank puts in a 6- or 7-paragraph complaint, and they put in an affidavit from somebody who you never heard of. It’s a stock, canned complaint. It’s a stock, canned affidavit. They scribble somebody’s name in pen that then they get notarized. It’s usually a first initial and then a last name, and then they’ll throw in a copy of the bill, and maybe they’ll throw in a gratuitous copy of a credit card agreement, and they’ll say lookit, this person owes us money, we have a contract with them, and therefore you gotta give us everything that we’re asking for plus attorney’s fees and costs. And all you have to do is kind of hold that up to the light and point out to the judge that, well Judge, that’s an interesting affidavit, but the person has no firsthand knowledge about the existence of any agreement, and by the way, the credit card agreement that they’re basing this whole case on, no witness sponsored them, so nobody has knowledge of the facts to be able to bring that into the whole case. What they try to do is they try to get these things based upon just the arguments of attorneys, and arguments of attorneys, while, when I think of myself, you know, very eloquent in certain circumstances, are not testimony. They’re not factual evidence that can be admitted into the record at court, and I just had a case last week against Citibank where I filed a motion for summary judgment on behalf of a client, and Citibank is very cocky. They didn’t even file a response, and we gave them two extensions in order to file a response to my motion. They filed nothing. And when I got up there, I laid the stuff out for the judge, the judge looked at me, he looked at the bank, and he said, why didn’t you guys file a response? Citibank said we’re going to stand on our complaint, Judge, we think we got enough there, and he launched into an interesting discussion about how he had actually advised the credit bar on several occasions that they have fact problems with their, with their complaints, and basically alluded to the fact that, the fact that 99% of the cases either go to default judgment because people don’t show up, or to settlement because people get badgered into settling with these people and acknowledging a debt that they really didn’t owe. Then these issues never get looked at.

DAVID: So you have pretty good luck with them.

LOCK: I tell you, the more I look at them, the more problems I find with them, and the more ways that I find to attack them, and that to me is the key. The good thing is that they’re fairly slow-moving. The good thing is that their entire system is based upon an illusion and is patently illegal, but the problem is you’re in a situation where you’ve got, you’ve got a number of factors that will cause difficulties for people who don’t understand what they’re doing, or that don’t have the kind of backing in terms of support to be able to educate them on, on the environment that they’re walking into. There’s a ton of problems here, from the inception for these people, and what you’re doing basically is just saying, you know, who is the guy behind the curtain, and they’re saying forget about him, don’t worry about that, pay me my money. And at the end of the day, if you just keep yourself focused on the issues and just talk about the law, and the law as it applies to the relationship that they’re alleging exists, at the end of the day, judges have a real, real hard time walking away from those issues.

DAVID: Right.

EUGENE?: Great question

FEMALE VOICE: Thank you Dave, thank you Mr. Lock, great answer, and we’ll go ahead and take the next question. David, I know you probably have more, and we will take more questions, so folks, if you have a question, press star 1 on your keypad and that’ll put you in queue, and let’s go to the next person.

ART?: And I just want to add into that really quick is that, David, Financial Solutions, as far as I know, is the only debt elimination company out there that has actually used MBNA’s arbitrating company, which is the National Arbitration Forum, to beat them with, and we’ve had many, many cases on a weekly basis where we’re having it dismissed from the arbitration forum in favor of our clients

MELANIE (caller): My name is Melanie, from Florida.

ART? Hi, Melanie, come on out.

MELANIE: Hi, my question is actually in reference to Citibank, and I recently had a final judgment ruled against me, actually it was on August 31st, and I’m not sure if this is the right call to ask this question, but I figured it wouldn’t hurt to ask. What, now that I have a judgment against me from Citibank, what do I do now, and what can I do to get this judgment vacated or voided.

ART?: What kind of a judgment was it?

MELANIE: It was just a final judgment. The hearing was to discuss a motion to strike any arbitration processes or stay any arbitration processes and strike any arbitration award which was, you know, Citibank’s, their motion for summary judgment, and then I had a motion to dismiss. Their, both of their motions were granted. Mine was denied, and I received a final judgment in the mail saying I owe the money, I have to pay it. Now I also have not heard from Citibank since then, so my question is, what do I do now, do I contact them, or do I wait to hear from them, and what steps can I take to get the judgment voided if that’s possible.

ART?: And Melanie, this was from another debt relief company you were working with, right?

MELANIE: That’s correct.

ART?: Just for new people, but basically there is a gentleman, and Robert has had the pleasure of speaking to him, that will be coming and working with Financial Solutions on exactly that, but Robert, I know you’ve had some of your own experience with void and vacate, is there anything you want to touch on that?

LOCK: Yeah, once you get into this realm, things start to get interesting, and vacating, vacating judgments is a, probably one of the more fascinating areas, I think, of this practice, because a lot of the things we’re talking about when we start talking about, when I start talking, about fighting the banks, this stuff is really pretty clear and simple. I base all of my objections on age-old precedents in contract law and in the Uniform Commercial Code, as well as just basic burden of proof and evidence arguments. And in all those points, the banks have a very, very hard time meeting their burden of proof. Now as I alluded to, there’s some great people that Financial Solutions is collaborating with to deal with void judgments, and I’ve done a great deal of study in the area, and I’ve had some success myself. Voiding judgments is a whole different animal, and it’s something that takes up to a different level the things that I’m talking about, you need to educate the judgment, but I think the shortest answer to your question is, can it be done. If you’re talking about Citibank, then there’s probably two or three different issues that I would raise in attacking any judgment that was issued by that judge as void, and all of them are substantial, and the important thing is that you just lay those things out and make sure that that judge understands that you understand exactly what the law is, and which things he has discretion and which things he doesn’t have discretion in and he has to follow. Things that I can think of right off the top of my head are, if it’s a Citibank case, then the things that I alluded to before, earlier in the call, their complaints are absolutely unbelievably weak. Their affidavits, the same. They don’t establish the existence of a valid and enforceable contract. They don’t establish the existence of any damage having been done. If you’ve failed to provide a competent fact witness to be able to establish the existence of a valid and enforceable contract and the existence of damage due to breach, then you have no basis on which to issue a judgment, and that judgment is void of its own weight. So in short answer to your question, and Art and Eugene can get into the different things that Financial Solutions is doing, but are there things to do to deal with that? Absolutely.

ART?: Thanks Robert, that’s a great answer, and Melanie, the main thing is get some of that information over to us at the office. The individual that we’re working with, basically in the short period of time, we’ll be doing some educational calls and so forth, and we can run it by them, and, as well as, you know, Mr. Lock, and they can collaborate or however we work that, that’s going to be worked, all those little kinks are gonna be worked out, but at least you’ll have a fighting chance. That’s basically what I would have to tell you right now.

MELANIE: Okay. Is this, so I understand, what should I do at this point, since I haven’t heard from them, and it’s been almost a month. Do I wait and get this information over so it can be discussed in more detail as far as how I can tackle voiding the judgment, or do I contact them and give them the illusion that I’m willing to work out payment arrangements, or what?

ART?: You know what, understand this. Citibank right now is real cocky, because they got a judgment against you, and they’re not going to do anything but say pay me the money. And so my recommendation in situations like this is always move quickly and aggressively, and go and attack it. The one thing you’ve got going for you is that there is no statute of limitations on a void judgment, and even on default judgments, I mean, there is no need to prove a meritorious defense. There’s no need to do a lot of different things. A void judgment is void from its inception, and so it’s not like you’ve got to go in tomorrow, but at the same time you can guarantee Citibank is selling this thing to somebody who’s going to come after you to collect on that judgment.

MELANIE: Well I was already given to an attorney, and the attorney is who sent me to the hearing.

ART?: Yeah, and he’ll sell it to somebody else, and it’s like this, it’s like this big obscene, you know, pig fest, where they go off and they sell all these different things and they take what they can get. They spend 75 cents, a dollar, per hundred or thousand dollars of the judgment and they see what they can get in addition to their fees

MELANIE: What are the chances of them pursuing further legal action through that same attorney to enforce the judgment?

ART?: If it’s Citibank, I would say that they definitely would, and so to me, there’s an urgency in terms of dealing with it

MELANIE: But at this moment I should not contact them, I should just go ahead and try to get the judgment voided?

ART?: You can always contact them, but I, don’t be surprised if what they say is, when are you gonna pay?


ART?: Because they’re not going to negotiate with you. Understand in the best situations when you’re negotiating with them on the initial case, before they got a judgment against you, that that’s what they were offering you was 85%. Maybe 80%, rarely less than that depending on how many months out that the debt was. And so at that point, y’know, now they’re feeling their oats, they’ve got a judgment against you, and they attempted to negotiate with you to knock this thing down is basically eliminate it. So when you get a situation like that I would recommend analyzing exactly what the record is, and it’s going to be different in different cases, analyzing what the record is in light of the law in the jurisdiction in which you live, and looking at the options of voiding the judgment.

MELANIE: And I just need to get the information over to Financial Solutions in order to do that?

ART?: Exactly.

FEMALE VOICE: And Melanie, I’ll touch base with you to be sure you have the proper numbers to make sure you have the proper documentation so you can get your remedy.

MELANIE: Thank you very much.

FEMALE VOICE: You’re very welcome, and we’re going to go to Bob next. Hold on.

BOB (caller): Yes, this is Bob.

FEMALE VOICE: Hi Bob, come on out.

BOB: I am finding there are a lot of companies that are in this business are just, and this would be the specialty (?) of Mr. Lock, how does Financial Solutions compare to some of the other companies out there.

LOCK: You know what, I wouldn’t be here with Financial Solutions if I didn’t have confidence in the theories and strategies that they were pursuing, and if I didn’t have confidence in the abilities of their paralegals as well as their customer service people. I know that there are a lot of companies out there, and understand what my, understand what my interest is here. My interest is to, and my mission, if you will, is counteract what I see as a significant problem in this country right now, and there’s, there are significant statistical analyses to back it up, and if you want to you can go on to the Federal Reserve’s website, particularly the Philadelphia Federal Reserve Board, and look at their payment card center and go out and look at some of the White Papers that are out there that deal with some of the issues that we deal with on a regular basis, and you look at the level of debt that this country is assuming, and how families aren’t just, y’know, this isn’t women’s lib that is, that is, pulling women out of the home and saying, you know what, I don’t care about my family, I’m gonna, they’ll be OK, and I’ll take care of them anyway because I’m good. I’m going out in the workforce and I’m going to liberate myself and I’m going to become something. We’ve got, we’ve got families who are, who have both spouses forced to go into the workplace in order to be able to deal with their debt payments, which continuously rise, with credit terms that continuously change. You’ve got, you’ve got, I mean the statistics are just amazing, and the number of people that are in debt that are retiring or near retiring, are at levels that we’ve never seen, and we’re talking about the Great Generation here, people that freed this world for democracy, republican democracy, not what we have here.

All right, so, so that’s what drives me when I look at, okay, is, there’s an incredibly sophisticated, organized creditor’s bar, and they, and then there’s the collections agents, and they all have associations, they’ve got networks, and they share information, they share strategies, and they say oh did you hear about what these idiots said, they were talking about the Constitution and stuff like that. And I mean they’re derisive of the fact that people are actually trying to fight back against this beast that is seeking to essentially own every single thing and every single person in this world. And if you can show me statistics that say that they’re not, y’know, I’m happy to look at them, but I look at information coming out of the Federal Reserve’s own website that shows me exactly what’s happening.

And so what I’m driven for here is, I want to develop a national network of attorneys, and that’s what I’m doing right now, and attorneys that deal in this area, because what I saw was, I walked into court, and I saw all these lawyers getting up there and handling the collection side of the cases, and all these poor people on the pro se side stepping up. And everybody’s looking at them like they’re dirtbags, oh God you scumbag, you couldn’t keep your, you couldn’t pay for, y’know, you couldn’t pay for your debt.

Well you know what, over 60% of the people in this country are having problems with debt right now, and that, and that, percentage is rising every day, okay, and it’s not because they’re bad people and it’s not because they’re bad managers and it’s not because they’re scumbags who don’t handle their obligations. It’s because the banks change the terms of the game every single day. OK, yeah, you got your payment in on the 16th when it was due, but you know what, it got here at 1:15 and we changed and it was supposed to be here at 1:00 so you know what, you got a $15 late charge. Sorry I didn’t tell you about that, but you know what, I really don’t have to because the contract that you didn’t sign that I mailed to you that maybe you didn’t read that said I can do whatever I want to do, okay.

What I’m seeking to do is develop relationships with attorneys and quality organizations so that there’s representation out there to help people to be able to go up and fight these things, cause they’re out of control. There’s no regulation, there are no usury laws that are in existence in this country anymore, which means that the banks can charge whatever they want, whenever they want. They can change their fees, they can add new fees, they can do anything that they want to in order to make sure that your job in paying what you feel is your responsibility, because we take our contracts seriously in this country, all right, they do their best to make sure that you are running like a rat on a treadmill.

And so when I associate with somebody like Financial Solutions, it’s because I’ve gone in and I’ve spoken with the people, I’ve dealt with the people, I’ve analyzed the research that they’ve done, the legal research that they’ve done. I’ve analyzed the strategies that they’re using and the theories that they have found, and I look at them and I understand from what I know of, of this area, that Financial Solutions is a reputable and strong company that I want to associate with in order to help people to get out from underneath what I feel to be a cancer that has to be stopped. And since we can’t count on our legislators, our congressmen, to go out and do what’s necessary to regulate this industry, then the only way to do that is through what I’m doing, and that is, doing it in court and beating them one consumer at a time, and trying to get them to the point where we can force them into a situation where they’ll accept reform.

BOB: Well that sounds great. Are you talking to any attorneys in the Phoenix area?

LOCK: I’m sorry, where?

BOB: Phoenix area.

[Note: Beginning at about 26:00 on the audio, tapping pause will stop the recording, but tapping play will not resume it, so the transcript stops here.]

5 Attorney Robert Lock on Arbitration 8:09

RICHARD (caller): Hi, my name is Richard.

FEMALE VOICE: Hi Richard, come on out. What is your question?

RICHARD: Okay, I believe in the process, it sounds like it’s got a lot of validity, and coincidentally I had been listening to information from another company that does roughly the same thing as you folks do, and their contention was that arbitration and court confirmation of the arbitration was getting to be a more necessary part of the process, and in their program, that involves considerably more expense than their basic package, and I’d like to know what your position is on that.

EUGENE?: Mr. Lock, if you wouldn’t mind please.

LOCK: I’m sorry, what’s your first name?

RICHARD: Yeah, Richard

LOCK: I apologize. You know what, this one is a tough one in some ways. It’s a very attractive device, and it is something that is legally based. I mean, what you’ve got is independent arbitration companies that have sprung up basically to fill a void based on the existence of outfits like the National Arbitration Forum that Eugene mentioned a moment ago, which is a completely fraudulent arbitration arm of MBNA and its main law firm Wolpoff & Abramson. The problem that we have right now with the arbitrations, as much good as there is to say about them and their intentions are good and there’s nobody that I know of out there that is looking to scheme and take money away from people. They’re trying to provide a valuable service. Here’s the problem. As with anything that is an innovation when you’re going up against multibillion-dollar banks who control more of our government than you know, who control more of our day-to-day life than you know, you’ve got a real, real high hurdle to climb over, and one of the things that, because I had, theoretically, I love the idea of independent arbitration awards in these cases, once you get past theory, I look at it and I say, now what can I do for a client in court, and I have a number of clients that have independent arbitration awards from a number of different companies, and then the question is what can you do with them. And the threshold question for me is, how many instances have you ever seen where arbitration awards have been confirmed, and the answer, to me, it’s like a white buffalo. It’s like Moby Dick. Everybody talks about having heard of instances where they’ve happened, but they can’t give you one. Now it’s interesting, and Art, I haven’t had a chance to talk to you about this, but I actually talked to an attorney today who just as an incidental matter, he doesn’t deal in this area, he was handling a matter for a longtime client, and he grabbed this arbitration award, and I believe it was from legal century(?), and he got it confirmed, and the other side didn’t show up, and so they confirmed it by default. Now the other side’s coming back and trying to, is trying to kick it out, but that is the only time that I have ever seen an arbitration award confirmed. And the bottom line is, if you can’t get it confirmed, then its value to you is going to be negligible. You may be able to use it for defensive purposes in certain circumstances, but in terms of being able to wave it out there as the silver bullet, I’m afraid that it just hasn’t developed to the point where there is sufficient credibility that’s been established out in the courts to allow those things to afford different clients the kind of value that they think they’re getting.

RICHARD: Well, let me rephrase the question perhaps, to clear up what the bottom line is in my mind. If their position is that the arbitration and the court confirmation is the assurance that the bank will go away and that they will report that to the credit bureaus, and how does your process accomplish that?

LOCK: The second part of that is the key point: the confirmation. And if you can’t confirm the award, then the award really has no value.

RICHARD: Okay, then walk me through your process to give me the comfort level, at the end of the day, the bank has gone away and they have reported the full discharge of the debt to the credit bureaus.

EUGENE?: Absolutely, and if I could step in there too, Robert Lock, and assist here is, we are doing a dispute process where we request the validity of the contract, we’re requesting that the account balance is zeroed, so if you got a letter back saying that your balance is zero per your request, which we have seen, several times, that is the confirmation that that account is zeroed, and if that account were to be pursued, you have a contract, a document, stating that they have actually zero balanced your account. We’ve actually received documents from the bank stating where they have admitted to the fraud, and they have actually removed all fraud charges and reported it to the four major credit bureaus, and most people think there’s only three credit bureaus but there’s actually a fourth, and so those are the types of responses that we’ve seen, responses where they have ceased all further collection activities. We’ve seen responses such as Art here, where they actually purged his records from the file as if he did not exist. And there’s been cases when we’ve seen chargeoffs, and in those cases if it goes to an outside third party, we will dispute the validity of the debt in the contract with the debt collector and ask them to prove that there can be a claim that can be maintained against our client, which we know cannot be done per the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.

RICHARD: Okay, I guess I’m just looking for a final end of the day assurance that each particular account is closed out and the credit bureau has been notified, and that there is some kind of a positive response that notifies me of that.

EUGENE: Well, I think what you’re looking for is a cookie cutter response from each company. That’s not what we’re getting here, because we have no way of knowing exactly how the bank is going to respond. And so any one of those examples that I just gave you is assurance that the debt has been gone, and it’s simply by pulling a credit report to see where you’re standing so as to know exactly where you fit in here. And on average we’re looking at about a six to twelve month process from start to finish with our program, and so I’ve seen it done in less than six months, I’ve actually seen it done in longer than twelve months. That case was an excessive amount of credit cards, you know, 15 or 20 plus credit cards. But if you’re working with an average, let’s say, amount of credit cards, you’re looking at a six to twelve month time frame from start to finish

ART: And if I could add in there as well, Eugene, this is Art, Richard it’s easy to look at this and want a black and white answer, and as an organization, it would be so easy for us to give you the sales pitch that nothing will ever go wrong with your credit report and the debt will be gone and you’ll never hear a thing. We here at Financial Solutions like to give you the full facts, and I’d like to let you know up front, a lot of us have gone through this program and have not had the same exact answer from every single banking institution. So we give them the back door in a lot of different ways they want to slip out of it, doesn’t matter to us. And so we’re just letting you know up front, a lot of the different results and a lot of different things, that can and has happened. And so you’re dealing with banking institutions that sometimes their left hand doesn’t know what their right hand is doing, and so there’s different documentation that gets sent out, and the thing is, you know, you’ll have someone here to work you through that process

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RICHARD: Okay, thank you.

ART: You’re welcome.

6 The Moral Issue 7:18

Hi, my name is Rod Seeger (sp?) and I’m so glad you made this call today. Back in July 2002, my son was over $40,000 in credit card debt. My first response was, there’s only one way out, and that’s bankruptcy. Then I remembered an email that I had received from someone a year earlier, saying that I could ethically and lawfully eliminate credit card debt. At the time I thought, you have got to be kidding me, right? Fortunately, I saved the email. I called the person and started doing my research. It all seemed to make sense, but there was one problem.

Being a Christian, and the pastor of a Christian church, I was deeply concerned with the moral implications of eliminating the debt. After all, you received goods and services, so how could you just walk away from the debt? If you receive something, then you’re obligated to pay. If you don’t pay, then someone’s going to be hurt. This was the issue that was confronting me.

However, as I researched further, I realized that the bank was the one with the real moral problem, because every time I signed that credit card slip, the bank stamps the back of it “pay to the order of” and deposits it into a transaction account in my name, and then sells than note and funds the cost of the proceeds. In other words, they pay the merchant from the proceeds of the sale of my asset. That is not a loan. That’s an exchange. They exchanged your promissory note, the card slip, for payment to the merchant. The bank loaned me none of their own assets, and none of their deposits are money. Therefore the bank was not at risk for anything and it did not cost the bank anything.

Now, through the card agreement, they extort from us a monthly payment, plus exorbitant interest, and ridiculous late payment penalties for an alleged loan, which is already settled from the proceeds of the sale of the card slip. Now let me ask you this: Would you enter into the card agreement if these material facts were disclosed to you? Let me put it this way. If you came to me for a loan of five thousand and I said sure, give me a check for five thousand, and then I took that check and deposited it, withdrew the cash and gave it back to you, and then said to you, now you owe me every month plus interest, would you accept that as a loan? You have to be crazy to do that. You would not accept that, because you were the one that provided the asset in the $5,000 check, and that’s exactly how credit card loans work.

Let me put it another way. Let’s say you bought goods from me for $5,000. You owe me $5,000. Instead of giving me cash, you gave me a card as an asset, and told me to sell it for 5,000. I then sold the card as an asset, but then you came back and said to you, you owe me 5,000, and you have to pay me every month at interest. Would you accept that? I think not. That would be fraud. Well, your signature on the credit card slip is just as much an asset as the card that was sold to pay the debt. So the debt was settled the moment the bank sold your asset, in other words, your signature. What most people struggle to grasp is that their signature on the credit card slip is the asset that they provided, and the bank accepted it as an asset by depositing it into an account in your name. Any deposit that a bank receives is recorded as an asset. Anything that can be sold for cash is an asset. They sold your signature asset and paid the merchant. That means you provided the funding of the card, just like you did in my 5,000 check example, that you would not enter into because you are not crazy.

Now, none of this information was disclosed to me in the card agreement. It was purposely concealed from me. That’s contractual fraud. According to the law, there has been a concealment of material facts that would have affected whether or not you would have entered into the contract, and the contract is null and void. That means it never did exist as a legal and binding contract. It’s a fraud. Therefore it is not immoral for me to refuse to perform under such a contract. I can lawfully and morally walk away and refuse to pay another dime.

Now from a legal point of view, I felt it was okay to walk away from this alleged debt, but I needed something more. As a Christian, I need to base my life and behavior on the Bible as God’s standard. Since something may be legal from a secular standpoint, yet not necessarily be lawful or moral as far as God’s law is concerned, I needed caselaw from the Bible that confirmed to me that I could have relief from a fraudulent contract or to have debt cancelled. Here is what I found.

In the book of Exodus, chapter 16 and verse 2 through verse 3, then again in verse 35 through verse 36, God actually arranged a loan for the Israelites from their Egyptian neighbors. Moses had gone to Pharaoh as God’s representative, requested that the Israelites be allowed to leave Egypt after 430 years of slavery. After a series of ten plagues, Pharaoh finally agreed. Pharaoh and God through Moses had a contract, an agreement. God then told them to go and borrow gold and silver from their Egyptian neighbors, to which the Egyptians duly consented. Now since this was a God-arranged loan, God was duty bound to repay it. Scripture says that God is no man’s debtor. In Proverbs chapter 19 and verse 17 it says “Whoever gives to the poor gives to God, and God will repay him.” So, you know, God always pays his debts.

But the next morning, Pharaoh changed his mind and said, I will go after them and recover the spoil and the gold, which was the gold and the silver. Well, you know the rest of story. God drowned the Egyptian army in the Red Sea. The Israelites crossed over into the wilderness and built a tabernacle in which they worshiped God with the very gold and silver that they had borrowed from the Egyptians. Now here’s the thing. There is no record anywhere that they ever paid back that loan. You say why? Well, Pharaoh was in breach of contract. Therefore, God was not duty bound to repay the loan. Pharaoh had broken contract.

In another scripture, Deuteronomy chapter 25 and verse 13 through verse 16, God declared that it was an abomination to God to conduct commerce with unjust weights and measurements. You were not allowed to use deceptive means in commerce. Folks, I have to tell you that based on the concealment in the card agreement that credit card loan is deceptive commerce, and it is an abomination to God. The scripture also said in Leviticus 19 and verse 11 through 13 that you are not to deal falsely with your neighbor. You are not to cheat or rob him. A credit card agreement is all of these things.

So based on these situations, I believe therefore that it is perfectly moral and lawful to seek relief from your credit card debt. And by the way, seven months after my son entered this program, he received nine binding arbitration awards against the banks and credit card companies for over $40,000. Now I trust that this satisfies your conscience, and if it does and you’re ready to move forward, then get back to the person that sent you to this call. God bless you and congratulations on taking your first steps to becoming debt free.

7 CCDN Audio Overview 4:48

PROFESSIONAL VOICE: Welcome to the CCDN Overview Call. CCDN stands for Credit Collections Defense Network and was formed by attorneys Robert Lock, Jr. and Philip Manger to provide the best in expert debt reconciliation and credit repair. Over the past four years, we’ve given thousands of individuals overburdened with debt a second chance and a fresh start. Using our in-house team of paralegals and a nationwide network of attorneys, CCDN takes on third party debt collectors for our clients, and if necessary will even drag them into federal court.

We believe the average consumer who finds themselves drowning in debt deserves a second chance. We also believe that by enforcing consumers’ rights against third-party debt collectors, we are helping to reform an unregulated and out of control collection industry. The CCDN Debt Reconciliation Program consists of three phases.

Phase I: Credit Restoration. Phase I begins with credit restoration and continues for twelve months thereafter. Our experience has been that the majority of negatives will be removed from a typical client’s credit report within the first four to six months of this process, but we will continue to challenge unverified information and monitor all clients’ credit reports for the full twelve months. Once their paperwork has been received at the CCDN Support Center, the Support Team will send their credit restoration application to The Fulfillment Center within two weeks. Following submission of their application, the Fulfillment Center will then begin the process of credit restoration with a client by contacting them via email. We think the best understanding and description of the credit restoration process can be gleaned by listening to the recorded call at 641 715 3900 code 8464. That number again is 641 715 3900 code 8464.

Phase II: Validation and Reconciliation. Validation and reconciliation also begins as soon as a client’s paperwork is processed. The purpose of this phase is to create an administrative record and establish as much information as possible as to the ownership and validity of the alleged debt. The process works through two levels. First, clients send out a series of proprietary letters at specific times to either the original creditor or the third party debt collector in an attempt to have the original creditor or third party debt collector provide validation of the alleged debt. If they are unable to do so, we demand that they zero out the customer’s account and mark it paid as agreed. Second, these letters are also used to expedite the transfer of the account from the original creditor to the third party debt collector, at which time our correspondence is used to enhance our compliance audits in Phase III. Phase II usually takes from three to nine months, depending on the status of the accounts when the individual enters the program, and the speed at which the various original creditors and third party debt collectors respond to our correspondence. When clients stop paying their creditors, they will begin to receive collection calls and letters from their creditors. The client will have to keep a log of the calls and fax any collection items or letters they receive in the mail to the Support Center team, so we can send clients appropriate responses. The same process applies to all third party debt collectors as well. The creditors and especially third party debt collectors typically violate several laws designed to protect the consumer, and this serves as the basis for Phase III of our program.

Phase III: Federal Lawsuit. The process of using the tool of a federal lawsuit begins at the completion of Phase II. In Phase III, our paralegals conduct a compliance audit of each account for each client. They then use their completed audits to compose a solid federal complaint, which is then sent on to one of our CCDN attorneys for filing in federal court. The assigned CCDN attorney handles the matter from there. Our experience has been that a suit rarely needs to be filed, and the matter is usually settled over the phone, out of court, within one to two months. In the rare cases when a suit does need to be filed, we have rarely had to actually go to court to settle the matter.

The three phases of the Debt Reconciliation can vary during the process, but should remain fairly consistent to the final outcome, the outcome being that a client’s credit scores will dramatically improve, and their debt is resolved. This concludes the Overview Call for the CCDN Debt Reconciliation Program. For eligibility and pricing information, please contact the CCDN agent that referred you to this call.

8 Hagenstein Conference Call

I want to welcome you all to the CCDN conference call this evening, and thank you for taking time out of your busy days. My name is John Hagenstein and I’ll be your moderator for this evening’s program. We’re going to begin with a basic overview of the agenda for this evening. Essentially, I’m gonna go through the overview of the CCDN program, how the program works, about the company, founders of the company, why they started this program, and talk a little bit about what you can expect in your participation within the program. Then I’m going to take some time to answer any of your questions after I go through that overview, and the call hopefully will last no more than an hour. It might go a little quicker, might go a little longer, depending on the questions and answers that we have to provide.

But at this point, let me begin again, welcome all of you to the CCDN program overview prospecting call, and again I want to introduce myself. My name is John Hagenstein and I’m the marketing director for CCDN. Let’s talk a little bit about what the CCDN is, and we wanted to welcome you to the program by explaining a little bit about who we are and what we do.

The CCDN or the Credit Collections Defense Network was formed to help anyone with financial difficulties and credit delinquencies. We offer a source of relief and peace of mind for people who have an unmanageable amount of unsecured debt and just need help. Our process is recommended for people who do not want to file bankruptcy or attempt a debt consolidation or debt reduction process, and just want to put an end to the abuse of the debt collection industry and the harassment that follows with their contacts. Now the CCDN’s sole purpose is to provide qualified legal education with the strategies and tools necessary to aggressively defend our clients against a credit collection system that has grown ever more aggressive. In addition, by utilizing our vast network of attorneys, the CCDN is able to provide assistance to our clients nationwide. If you haven’t already done so, we’d encourage you to take some time to review the contents of our website. The website address is Again that’s On that website you’ll find information such as a basic overview of the program. You’ll find information about the founders of our program, how they started the program, a review of how the program works, in addition to some frequently asked questions, and education, and a contact section.

So let’s begin by talking a little bit about the founders of the company. The founders of the company are Robert K. Lock, Jr. and Philip Manger, who are two gentlemen that began the program about four years ago, although they’ve been involved in the consumer credit industry for more than seven or eight years prior to that. Both Robert Lock is a practicing attorney in Chicago, Illinois, you can look him up if you’d like. By going to our website you can click on his name or his picture in the About Us section and learn all about Robert, his litigative career, education, he’s a Ph.D. candidate presently, a very well respected attorney out of Chicago. You can look him up and check his Bar license there if you’d like.

Philip Manger, his partner and cofounder, both gentlemen are attorneys. Philip is a practicing contractual attorney, stockbroker, been involved in the contract business for many, many years, business management, operations management, and again, his biograph is on the same page. Now they put their heads together after being involved in this business for years, seeing programs come and go and be successful and not be successful, and realized that there was a common theme to the folks that were not being successful and to the folks that were being successful, so they developed a philosophy, and this is basically their philosophy. They believe that the average consumer, who finds themselves drowning in debt, deserves a second chance. Their belief is that given that second chance, consumers will not only not fall into the same credit card trap again, but they also believe that by suing the third party debt collectors, they are not only protecting the rights of clients or consumers, but are also helping to reform the unregulated collection industry, which is clearly out of control in their minds. It’s their vision at CCDN to provide a strong and effective defense to the average consumer from the abusive tactics being practiced by these third party debt collectors.

Now what I mean by that. The process essentially works in a couple different ways, and it’s a three-phase program. Let me go over a little bit about how the three phases work, individually describing each phase, and giving you an understanding of what each phase accomplishes, and what it presents and builds up to the final outcome, which is to have your debt zeroed out and considered paid as agreed. Now the CCDN program consists, as I just mentioned, of three phases, one with, each with its own distinct purpose. We use a combination of laws including but not limited to the Fair Credit Reporting Act, FCRA; the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, the FDCPA; the Fair Credit Billing Act, FCBA; and any of the state unfair and deceptive acts and practices laws that support and help bolster the arguments that CCDN will put forward.

These laws are federal laws that have been in place for over 30 years, although most of us on this call have never heard about them prior to getting involved with CCDN. They’ve been around and put in place by Congress to protect the consumer from the unscrupulous practices of the debt collection industry, the banking industry, and of course the credit reporting industries.

Now, the three phases of our program, as I mentioned, have distinctive purposes. Phase I is the phase of the program that you start in when you come into the program. It includes two aspects of Phase I. The first part is called credit restoration, and it begins as soon as you enter into our program and your paperwork has been processed. Credit restoration will continue once you’ve enrolled in our program for up to 24 months, and what credit restoration is, is a process that helps you, the consumer, restore your credit from prior to when you got into the difficulties with the debt collectors and the banks. 6:08 Our experience has been that the majority of negatives that are situated on a credit report will be removed from your credit report, your typical customer’s credit report, within the first three to four months of this process, but we’ll obviously continue this program for 24 months so that we get the credit score as clean as possible, and the credit reports to be as sound as they can be.

The other part of the Phase I process is what we call the simple dispute process. As soon as you’re contacted by an original creditor, which is the bank more than likely, or a third party debt collector, within 30 days we want to send that collector or that creditor a dispute letter saying that you dispute the debt. Now what does that mean? 7:08 By disputing the debt, it puts a couple of things into motion. The first one is, it allows you to stop making payments to that creditor until that dispute has been resolved. Now disputes usually don’t get resolved, in most cases they don’t ever get resolved, so that dispute stays in place. So that allows you, the consumer, to stop making payments to the creditors. Now, by federal banking law, if a bank does not receive payments for six consecutive months, they are required by these banking laws to discharge that debt, and then they have the ability to decide what they want to do with it. By discharging that debt, they’ll either take a combination of tax writeoffs, their insurance premiums, or both. This is a good thing for you because you obviously have stopped making payments to them while the dispute is in process, and it allows you to catch up and do whatever you need to do with that money.

The other aspect of the program that falls into place when you invoke a dispute is that by federal law the creditor is not allowed to report you late or delinquent to the credit reporting agencies until, the three major primary ones are the ones commonly used, TransUnion, Equifax, and Experian, and they cannot report you to those companies, and they can also not begin to perform any collection activities against you. Now that’s important. Obviously, banks will ignore these things because they’ve been doing that for over 30 years or more, but at least it provides the basis for the foundation of our Phase III process, which we will get into shortly.

Now when these banks discharge this debt and sell it to debt collectors, that begins the process that’s called Phase II. Now during that process and even before when the banks still retain the ownership of the account, begins the process of Phase II called validation and then also reconciliation. Now both of these begin as soon as your paperwork is processed, depending on where you are in the program with your payments to these creditors. The purpose of this phase is to create an administrative record and to establish as much information as possible as to the ownership and validity of the alleged debt. The process literally works on two levels. The first level is that we help send out a series of proprietary letters at specific times to either the original creditor or the third party debt collector, in an attempt to have the original creditor or the third party debt collector provide validation of the alleged debt. Now validation means they have to prove the debt is legitimate and legal. They cannot do this because they do not keep any of this documentation in the case that it does exist, and in most cases it does not. Remember, did you ever sign a contract with the original bank? Did they ever send you a copy of this contract back? Probably not. If they are unable to do so, to validate the alleged debt that is, we demand that they zero out the consumer’s account and mark it paid as agreed. 9:45 Now this is a rare occurrence that it performs under the process. If a client has, if our clients have 5 or 10% success at this level, that’s fantastic. It’s not what we plan on, but if it happens, we welcome it

The second part of this process is that these letters which we also use to expedite the transfer of the account, if it’s still with the original creditor, to the third party debt collector, at which time our correspondence collection is used to enhance what we call compliance audits in Phase III. Now when these debt collectors retain the ownership of the debt, they will begin calling you and writing you letters as a consumer. They’ll be calling you and saying please pay your debt. They might get more aggressive during certain times of the month, but the ultimate goal is for you to work out some kind of a settlement with them to pay them off to collect money from you, some form of a settlement that they can guarantee themselves steady income over a period of time, or even a lump sum if you can afford it. They’ll do whatever they can to collect this money, and the FDCPA law that I spoke about a few minutes ago, the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act laws, are meant to govern how these people collect.

Now these laws, as I said a few minutes ago, have been in place for over 30 years. The debt collector’s been violating these laws intentionally for over 30 years. It’s very simple, and when you ask the question why would they violate federal laws, because first of all, no one knows about these federal laws, and secondly, no one challenges them on these federal laws. Now there’s the CCDN and we do this. Now when these letters are used to expedite the transfer to the third party debt collector, we ask you to be our intermediary, the interactive participant in the collection of the communication. We ask you to call, take the calls from these debt collectors, take the letters that you receive from these debt collectors and submit them to our customer support staff. They will in turn give you feedback on what to do next. It’s a walking-through process and educational program as we talked about.

Now this process, Phase II, usually takes anywhere from three to eight months, possibly a little longer, sometimes a little less, depending on what the status of the account was when you, the individual consumer, entered the program, and the speed at which the various individual creditors and third party debt collectors respond to our correspondence. Remember, when you receive a letter from a debt collector, and you’ve disputed this account, they’re beginning collection activities, which is in violation of federal laws. When they start violating these federal laws, we ask you, as we said, to keep track of this information and provide it to us. We then provide you a response. 12:10 Our responses are meant to aggressively challenge what they’re doing and aggravating them even further, and they become more and more aggressive. As they do this, we want you to continue communicating with these people. In some cases, we want you to fill out phone logs. In some cases, we want you to fill out what we call a phone statement, which is an individual call that you’ve had with a debt collector, and in some cases, where applicable, we may even ask you to do some recording of conversations where the law allows, in certain states.

But the majority of the information we gather is you personally talking with these debt collectors, listening to them challenge and violate your federal rights. So once we’ve accumulated this information, we perform what is called a compliance audit, and this is the last part of the Phase II process. A compliance audit is essentially, we take the information that you provided us through your communications with the debt collectors, and we audit it to see what of those communications are in compliance or not in compliance with the FDCPA. When we find out the cases that are not in compliance with the FDCPA, we put together what we call a rough draft of a federal complaint. This draft is then presented to our paralegal staff for analysis, and then to our attorneys for completion. Once the attorneys complete this lawsuit, that’s the beginning of Phase III.

Now we’ve gone through Phase I and Phase II. Now Phase III is where the federal lawsuit begins. In Phase III after our paralegals have conducted a compliance audit of each account for each consumer, they then use their complete audit to compose, as I mentioned, a very solid federal complaint that’s been checked both by our paralegal staff and our attorney staff. 13:51 Once that’s ready for presentation to our field attorneys, we have over 250 nationwide field attorneys, this document is sent to our field attorney for not only review but also for acceptance. Once this field attorney feels that they have a solid case on their hands, and they know their municipality and their state very well, they will accept that case, acknowledge that to CCDN, and then contact you the consumer, introduce themselves, and begin an interview process with you to see if anything recent has occurred that did not get onto this federal complaint.

Once they do that, the attorney takes this federal complaint and files in federal court against the debt collector. 14:28 Now, how does the outcome come about? How does this zeroing out of debt and getting it paid as agreed come about? Here’s essentially how the process works. It’s not a perfect science, but the process works essentially like this. The debt collector’s attorney will receive the summons for the federal complaint and the acknowledgement that a lawsuit has been filed against them. They will then in turn either have themselves, if they’re capable of doing so as an attorney, or they will hire their attorney to reach out to the CCDN representative attorney who represents you, the consumer, and ask questions about the lawsuit. Our attorneys know that these lawsuits are solid lawsuits, and why are they solid?

As we all know, anybody can sue anybody for anything in this country. Why would our lawsuit be so solid and why isn’t everybody else’s? Remember that communication that you gathered from communicating with the debt collectors, the calls and letters that you documented? Those are black and white documented violations. Those are what we call gold, or money in the bank, if you want to call it that. These violations, after the debt collector’s attorney has seen these, knows they’re going to lose this case. Now keep in mind, the debt collection industries work on what we call the money principle, or numbers game. They look at the fact that when they buy debt, and when they buy debts, folks, when your $10,000 credit card gets sold to a debt collector, that debt collector will have paid maybe 2 ½ to 3 pennies on the dollar. So in other words, that $10,000 credit card debt was probably purchased for under $500. They have an investment of $500, maybe a couple of phone calls, a couple of letters, and you’re suing them in federal court. If they lose this federal case, and they know they will when they see the violations that we put together in our federal complaint, they know that they will be paying the consumer a thousand-dollar penalty fee and all of their legal and court fees. Our attorneys will let them know that their legal and court fees will run anywhere from 2,500 to $5,000.

So let’s add that up. They pay the consumer $1,000, approximately. They pay the attorney anywhere from 2,500 to 5,000, then they gotta pay their own attorney to defend themselves if they were to go to court. They could be out of pocket anywhere from 5 to $10,000 to collect that $10,000 debt, have to go through court, risk possibly getting themselves in trouble with the department of commerce in their state with their license as a debt collector, or do they choose to settle this debt, out of court, never seeing the light of day in a courtroom, and settling it out. They usually choose the settling out process, literally every single time. And why do they choose that? Well first of all, like I said a second ago, it’s a numbers game, folks. When they buy these debts from the banks, they don’t buy one, or five, or twenty, or even a hundred. They buy 10, 20, 30, 50,000 names that from a database that the banks sell them for pennies on the dollar. These collectors put them in their database, they put them in their phone room, and the phone calls and the letters begin to you.

They’re risking the fact that they’re gonna get caught once or twice out of 20 to 50,000 names. It’s a numbers game, folks. Nobody knows about these laws, everyone’s scared when a debt collector calls. The last thing you want to do is get dragged into any kind of a negative situation, so let’s settle with these guys and get on with our lives, is the common thought process.

So our program now has taken us to the federal complaint. We’ve submitted the federal lawsuit to the court, filed it with the court system, the debt collector’s attorney looks at this and goes oh no, this is not good, let’s call the attorney for the consumer, and let’s see how we get these people off of our back. And here’s our settlement, folks. We request, every single time, we request $1,000 to be paid to the consumer for their grief and suffering, attorneys fees of anywhere from 2 to $3,000 to get this case taken care of, that is paid for by the collector, not by you the consumer. In the settlement we will sign a contract, an agreement, that says you, the consumer who is suing the debt collector, and the debt collector will never sue each other again over this debt or any other matter related to this debt. They will also agree to consider this debt paid in full, paid as agreed, and zeroed out. The debt literally dies on the vine. Thirdly, they agree to report to the three primary credit reporting agencies that this debt has been paid as agreed.

So folks, in essence at the accumulation of this process, your debt has been paid off and zeroed out, the debt collectors have notified the credit bureaus, which has improved your credit scores by getting your debt zeroed out, your debt to equity ratio improves, so your credit scores go up again, and remember what we talked about in Phase I, credit restoration, that’s been working for you for up to 24 months? That also is a process of challenging all the negatives on your credit report and getting them removed so they can also not be validated. So in essence, this program works as such.

The consumer enters the program, gets their credit scores improved, goes through the process of getting everything taken care of, in regard to their debt getting zeroed out. The debt collectors have agreed to never sue you again and this debt dies on the vine. It cannot be sold or given to anybody else for the purposes of collection, because obviously it’s been paid off as agreed. It’s not been settled, it’s not been renegotiated, a portion of it doesn’t go into limbo land that will you receive a 1099 at the end of the year, because remember, folks, debt settlement programs, you run the risk of getting a 1099 for the debt that has not been paid. In other words, the $10,000 debt that you settled for $4,000, where did that $6,000 go? Well, it went into your pocket, folks, and you might be getting a 1099. Are you prepared to pay taxes, income taxes, on $6,000? In our program that doesn’t exist.

So that gives you a basic overview of the CCDN program. I’m pleased to open the session up for questions and answers now. I think we have a few guests that might be willing to ask some questions. If you all want to unmute your phones if you muted them, I think Jack, you have, *6 to unmute. I think we have Alicia on the phone, and a few others, again thank you for your time, and I’m willing to answer any questions that you need to ask.

[pause] Don’t everybody jump in at the first time, folks. I know it’s hard.

ALICIA: As far as with what you do, is that, is this basically like a guarantee?

HAGENSTEIN: Oh, there’s no guarantees in laws. Is this Alicia?

ALICIA: Mmm-hmm [affirmative].



HAGENSTEIN: There’s no guarantees in law, unfortunately. I wish there were, but like I said a few minutes ago, I don’t know exactly when you came into the program, but anybody can sue anybody for anything at any time.

ALICIA: Right.

HAGENSTEIN: And the courts interpret law, even though you think law is black and white, it’s extremely gray. But our success ratio speaks for itself. Literally the majority of our customers get complete relief. Most of them get at least partial relief, 21:43 and we’re not talking debt settlement, like you might have a, talk to someone else about possibly, we’re talking about essentially a debt reconciliation program where the debt is reconciled and you walk away from it. Obviously, a smaller debt, if you have a credit card with 10 or $20,000, it’s a lot easier to handle if you have a credit card, if you do have a credit card, that has a $50,000 limit on it or something. It’s a little bit different situation, but there is no guarantee, unfortunately.

ALICIA: Mmm-hmm.

HAGENSTEIN: What’s the only guarantees in life, death and taxes?

ALICIA: Mmm. Well, as far as with, as far as with my situation, what I don’t understand is, you know, they basically told me I could do like a six-month program or I could do a 20, or you could give me a twelve-month program.

HAGENSTEIN: Right, that was the agent that you talked to, as far as their compensation package.

ALICIA: Right, yeah. If I paid everything in full in six months, it would be taken care of in six months?

HAGENSTEIN: Oh, no, no. The process will take anywhere from nine or twelve to eighteen months. See, the process, as we were explaining it, and I don’t remember exactly when you came into the call.

ALICIA: Yeah, I think you were kind of at the end of Phase I.

HAGENSTEIN: Okay, so you pretty much got it. In Phase II we have no control over how fast or how aggressive the debt collectors reach out and communicate to you. Some of them take their time, they have too many accounts, they don’t have enough staff to follow up on, maybe your particular account that they have, if you have one credit card that has a low balance that they actually purchased, they’re not gonna be as aggressive and go after you as they would if they had somebody who had an account that’s maybe two to five times that, or something like that. So we have no control over how quickly they, and aggressively they come after you. All we do know is that the process that we follow walks you through step by step, as an educational program should, to handle the communications between the third party debt collectors and yourself.

ALICIA: Mmm-hmm.

HAGENSTEIN: We’ve had clients go through this program in six months, or six or seven months, and there are people that have been in this program for 14, 15 months and are just finally getting it wrapped up and heading out, y’know, cause the settlement process doesn’t happen overnight. It maybe happens in about a 15 to 30-day window. When the federal lawsuit is actually filed for you. Now obviously if there’s no violations with these debt collectors and it takes time to build it, we can’t just jump in and file a federal case. No attorney, and remember, our attorneys do this on contingency, we don’t pay them a penny and you don’t pay them a penny. They do this strictly on the fact that they’re gonna win these cases and receive this settlement award from the debt collector. So they know that they’re gonna get their money based on the cases they accept, but if the case isn’t strong enough, they’re gonna say we need to wait for more violations. So that’s how this program works. We have to make sure that we have the weight behind us before we actually go to do battle.

ALICIA: Okay, and they don’t do, y’know, the violations that you’re talking about, then where does that put it?

HAGENSTEIN: 24:27 Well, they’ll always do violations. It’s just a matter of how often, how soon, and how many. So it’s just a matter of time.


HAGENSTEIN: I mean, it’s the process of the debt collection industry, as I was saying a few minutes ago, they buy thousands and thousands of names. They take the risk. It’s like a numbers game. I use the analogy of an automobile that was on the marketplace, the Ford Pinto. From what I understand from news articles that I’ve read, Ford didn’t repair the vehicle’s body design because it was cheaper to deal with the litigation from the lawsuits than it was to retool the assembly line. I don’t know if that’s true, that’s what I heard, and it makes a lot of sense, because y’know in the numbers game, if you win 100 out of 100 cases, if you win 99 you lose one, you’ll take the loss. And you know, and that’s how these people operate. They’ll continue to call you. The majority of the folks out there don’t know about our program. We’ve been trying to improve our marketing, that’s why we have these calls, and we have one on one calls, and independent calls, a website, and things of that nature, but there are a lot of people in this country that are in need, and we need to do a better job of getting them to us. But I think that answers your question, doesn’t it?

ALICIA: Mmm-hmm [affirmative].

HAGENSTEIN: Well, that’s good. It’s a good question. What other questions do you have? You seem to be on a roll.

ALICIA: I feel like I’m the only person online.

HAGENSTEIN: No, actually we have about seven or eight people tonight.


HAGENSTEIN: Yeah, we usually have anywhere from seven to ten, but because of the holiday this week, I think a lot of people are still out of town, so, but we hold them regularly. Jack, are you on the phone? Hit *6 to unmute. There he goes. Jack, do you have any questions?

JACK: I have a lot of questions, but to start off, on my situation, the way I came on to this phone call, I call the Walt and I ask him if I could be in one of the program, and he say he recommend to come on to this program, but my situation is that I have first a few foreclosures, because I bought a few houses and I kept them, then because of the market I couldn’t be able to pay them and I, in one point I give up and I didn’t pay, so they took the properties, and then I had to pay some of the money from credit cards, and a line of credit from the business and from personal, so I’m right now, y’know my credit report is that I have a few [fore]closures and credit card denied, you know, on a lot of them.


JACK: So I don’t know how much you could help me as far as to, you know, repair the credit.

HAGENSTEIN: 27:44 Jack, we can repair your credit with the credit restoration program, and we use a sister company called The Fulfillment Center. They are fantastic for repairing people’s credit. Like I said, they stay with you through the 24 months, working with you to write letters to the three reporting agencies, challenging the validity of the debt and asking them to prove that these debts, these derogatories that is, these negative marks are valid, and they can’t, because these banks don’t keep the information. All they do is send credit card statements or, y’know, they send a letter to the bank and the bank says yes it’s legitimate, but yet they don’t provide any validation, so we use the FCRA and the FCBA, the Fair Credit Reporting and Billing Act laws, primarily section 609 and 611, to ask them to validate or remove. Once they remove these debts, if they can’t be validated, they can never put them back on your reports again. And that leads to a very consistent time-managed process, your credit scores will be restored.

JACK: But like I say, if it’s only credit card debt, I don’t understand that.

HAGENSTEIN: 28:42 Jack, I didn’t, I didn’t say credit card. We restore your credit scores, which means that everything that affects your credit scores will be dealt with in whatever fashion we need to. If they can’t validate the actual derogatory, the negative mark, they have to remove it. That goes for judgments, bankruptcies, it goes for foreclosures, it goes for unsecured credit card debt, loans, goes for anything. If they can’t validate it, they have to remove it, and if they remove it, it can’t go back on, and if it doesn’t go back on, your credit scores go up.

JACK: When you say validate, I have a mortgage that I signed, y’know, a contract.

HAGENSTEIN: Sure. I understand. Well, let’s be clear. Credit restoration is different than debt reconciliation. Debt reconciliation is the part of the process that the CCDN manages with you. Credit restoration is The Fulfillment Center’s part of the process, which restores your credit. No matter if you have a signed contract with somebody, the derogatory on your credit report, if they can’t validated it and provide documented certified information, which they don’t ever keep, they have to remove it. So they work side by side in interrelationship with each other, so, you’ve got some specific things, Jack, that we want to have you, and Walt’s extremely intelligent about this stuff, but if you and Walt want to get on a three-way with me with one of our founders and attorneys, we can arrange that for you to be more specific with your calls, and that goes for anybody on the call. What I’d like to focus these calls on is to ask, y’know, the general questions about the program, because getting private information or specific information sometimes is a little difficult to talk about, if you understand what I mean.

JACK: Okay.

HAGENSTEIN: But I’m more than willing to take the general questions, such as what happens in this situation or what happens here, what do I do in this case, that kind of stuff.

ALICIA: Well, what my biggest thing is that, y’know, because I’ve had other people call me, is that, y’know, how do I not know that this is a con, y’know, because I’m going to be, y’know, paying out all this money and you’re saying okay, because I was thinking I’ll just pay it off in six months, or I could just pay it all off at one time, instead of, y’know, the twelve months, because as far as I see it, I would rather pay out all this money and everything and basically the way I look at it is, if I’m, y’know gonna be giving you money, and that’s, you know, a chunk of change out of my pocket, how do I know this is legit? Because I don’t see you, y’know, where I’m at. Where I live at, I’ve never even seen you guys before.

HAGENSTEIN: Right, well we don’t have a storefront unfortunately. I can’t talk to that.

ALICIA: And you see, I pay you off all this money, and then basically, y’know, where does that leave me? How do I know that this is going to get taken care of? And that this isn’t a scam?

HAGENSTEIN: Well, that’s a great question. We’ve got over 2,000 customers in this program. I have testimonials that I could share with you. I could introduce you to our founders. You could ask them questions. We have a support staff south of Buffalo, New York, a five-people support staff that handles your communications, all your calls. If this were a scam and we wanted to take your money for twelve months, we wouldn’t probably offer a 12-month payment plan. We’d probably want it from you in a lump sum and get the heck out of there

ALICIA: Right.

HAGENSTEIN: 32:15 So obviously, the other thing that you have to realize, and probably the most important part of it because everybody knows that anybody can go and present themselves on the computer, on a website, put a picture of a big, y’know, ten-story building on the picture, and not say their at that location, but infer that it is, tell you that they’ve got 20 staff members or 100 staff members, anybody can be as large as they want on the Internet. That’s the sad part of our society nowadays is that you don’t know if there’s a scam or not a scam going on. But I can tell you one thing. 32:41 Our two founders are attorneys. They have legitimate Bar licenses. You can check them out if you go to our website and look at their names, do a search in Illinois, or in New York or Connecticut where the two founders are located and they have Bar licenses.


HAGENSTEIN: You can check them out. You can see if there’s any negative. Go to the Chicago Better Business Bureau. Look up CCDN. We’ve been in business for over four years. You won’t see one complaint about the CCDN.


HAGENSTEIN: Now if you google us and search for us, you will see some things. I’m not gonna tell you that we’re clean. We have a couple of disgruntled employees who are trying to slam us, and they put negative publicity on some of the websites, so if you do a search and you do your due diligence, you’ll see that there’s some negative things out there.

ALICIA: Yeah, I mean, there’ll always be a negative with a positive.

HAGENSTEIN: The primary search mechanism that we have in the industry that most people use now to search out names is called Google, you know. Trademarked name, I’m not gonna give them any pats on the back, but they are the biggest and we all know about them. If you Google CCDN law, you’ll see some negatives. You go to CCDN, you’ll see some negatives. They’re primarily coming from one website called the Ripoff Report. They’re coming, those postings, there’s about a dozen postings on the Ripoff Report. Literally, other than, there’s actually two people. One person posted one, these are negative comments, we’ve got some positives on there too, but obviously people only want to look at the negatives cause they were concerned like you are, about whether it’s a scam or not.

ALICIA: Mmm-hmm.

HAGENSTEIN: But the negatives are written by two people. One person wrote one comment. The other eleven or so are written by one person, an ex-employee, who we terminated our relationship with for lying to customers. In fact, today I terminated a relationship with another marketing group because they were taking customers’ money improperly and promising them things that weren’t acceptable.

ALICIA: Mmm-hmm.

HAGENSTEIN: 34:40 We’re an ethical organization. We’re lawyers. We won’t risk our livelihood, I’m not a lawyer by the way, I’m a marketing director, but our two founders are lawyers. They will not risk their legal livelihood and get disbarred over this scam. Plus we have over 250 network attorneys that are in our program working for us around the country, and they’re not going to risk their reputations to be affiliated with a company that scams people. I hope that gives you a little bit of comfort and satisfaction. I’m sorry I can’t show you and bring you down to my office building and show you all our work.

ALICIA: I understand.

HAGENSTEIN: And our mahogany furniture, cause trust me, we don’t have any mahogany furniture at CCDN. We do this on the, when you consider the services that you get from CCDN, an 18-month, up to 18 month, or longer, depending on the circumstances, process, that turns you over to qualified consumer debt attorneys around the country to handle and file lawsuits on your behalf without an extra penny out of your pocket other than our membership fee. And the membership depends on how many accounts you have, and you’ve been quoted as your fee, but think about that. You can’t get an attorney without paying them a 1,500 to $2,500 retainer for one account. The fee that you pay for this program covers a lot more than one account for that amount, so I think ultimately if you do the math and you do all the soul-searching that you might want to need to do, this program probably sounds too good to be true, doesn’t it? 35:56

[repeated scraping noise intrudes on recording]

ALICIA: Is that you or me?

HAGENSTEIN: I think that’s you. Would you mute please? [noise stops] I hear some squeaking. One of the things people don’t realize is there’s some background noise and you don’t hear it yourself and so it happens on these calls

ALICIA: Mmm-hmm.

HAGENSTEIN: But anyway, thank you. What other questions would you have, Jack, or Alicia? [scraping noise for a few seconds]

JACK: So, um, yeah, you said that, um, you have to answer the phone calls that they call you, trying to collect. Like, what if I didn’t answer the phone, you know, I owe numbers of credit cards, and they been calling, and I can’t pay them, so I didn’t answer, answer back, and so they send me the debt collector, and it’s, I think it’s over 30 or even 60 days, so what do we do here?

HAGENSTEIN: Yeah, well, basically you have to talk to these people, Jack. It’s unfortunate, it’s not a fun job, but you, if you right now, if you hired an attorney, for example, to defend yourself in this situation, to represent you, they wouldn’t call you. They’d have to talk to the attorney. And they wouldn’t violate any laws. So the idea is that you, representing yourself in this process, cause we’re not your attorney, we’re an education company that advises you. That’s why you gotta do this yourself, because if they know you’re represented by an attorney or working with an attorney, they’re obligated by federal law to talk to that attorney rather than you.

JACK: Mmm-hmm.

HAGENSTEIN: You need to be the one that talks to them because they think that you’re just representing yourself, you’re an uneducated consumer, and they’ll try all the tactics that are available to them to try to get you to agree to pay them some money. Remember, if you have that $10,000 credit card we were using as an example $250 or even $500 for it, they got you to pay them $3,000, they made out pretty good, didn’t they?

JACK: Mmm-hmm.

HAGENSTEIN: But that’s what they’re looking for, to get you to pay them something.

ALICIA: I believe that what you’re saying is actually true, and remarked to the fact that I was actually going to talk to my boyfriend and tell him about this program.


ALICIA: He actually let his prior ex-girlfriend basically have a car in his name, and she basically left him a message saying hey, you know what, I’m gonna forfeit on this car. You know, I don’t know what to tell you or whatever, they had an agreement, a written agreement that she was going to actually refinance the car in her name [scraping sound resumes, and is heard intermittently for some time] and she never did it, so I got hold of the company and told them what was going on, and she told him that, you know, that she sent him a fax saying she did it, because basically that’s the way it was going to be. You know, it was off, he didn’t even check his credit or anything. To make a long story short, the car was still in his name and we were actually going to purchase a home together, and they seen that the car was still in his name. So this is like right before she called him and told him, hey guess what, you know, I’m gonna forfeit on this, I never changed, I never refinanced or anything. Basically, he had to call the car company, which he called I believe at the end of, no, mid-December, and said hey, I haven’t got any letters or anything saying that, y’know, she’s behind on any payments or anything. My credit’s going bad because of this. Well lo and behold, this company keeps calling, you know, calling and calling, so finally they get the car from her, and basically they settle out of, I don’t know, I guess at an auction, and these people started calling. He said, I called, and I was like, okay you know, I got a settlement and I never even drove the car. She was driving it. They wanted to settle from twelve to $6,000. Well, you know, I said, no, you know, that’s not gonna work because, you know, he never had the car.

HAGENSTEIN: There’s a difference, though.

ALICIA: Well, like you said, they want to try to settle it on something, they sent it to this other place, and a guy called me and threatened me and said that if he was staying with me, that my assets were his assets, and that they were gonna come and take my things, and he started threatening me.

HAGENSTEIN: Obviously major violations of the FDCPA.

ALICIA: Yes, and he did call after 9:00, and they kept calling him and calling him, and they started calling my phone too, and then I finally had to tell him, tell this guy hey, he’s no longer with me anymore, just so you will stop harassing me. He said, well you know what, I know you probably still talk to him, so you need to go and get ahold of him and tell him that he needs to talk to me, this and that and whatever. That’s another, like you said, a violation, and then on top of that, y’know, I say, you know what, I’m tired of you harassing me, I’m gonna get a lawyer and I’m gonna sue you for this. Because I have it on my [more scraping noises].

HAGENSTEIN: Right. I mean, the bottom line is that the collectors will violate and violate and violate cause they get away with it. They don’t care who you are, and they get worse at the end of the month because they’re like anybody else who’s in the sales business. Trust me, they’re salespeople.

ALICIA: Uh-huh.

HAGENSTEIN: They have a quota. At the end of the month they gotta meet their quota, otherwise they get in trouble.


HAGENSTEIN: If they’re not making their closes, they’re not getting money for their client or their potential prospects at the end of the month, the pressure’s on, and it gets a little more aggressive to make you settle. And that’s why they jump down at the end of the month. If you wanna settle something, in the collection industry, wait till the end of the month and offer them, y’know, ten or fifteen cents on the dollar, they might even take it if they’re close to quota.

ALICIA: Really.

HAGENSTEIN: They have the authority to do whatever they want. They know what their minimum is because they own the debt. They purchased it for pennies. They know that the company requires them to get a certain amount from you, otherwise it’s not worth it. Remember, if you are a debt collector and you bought 50,000 accounts, okay, credit card accounts or loan accounts, and each of those are $10,000, that’s an awful lot of money that they paid maybe $10,000 for, take them months to recover for that.

ALICIA: Mmm-hmm.

HAGENSTEIN: And make a lot of people, I mean, why do you think debt collectors are driving around in fancy cars and wearing Rolexes, according to the stories out there. Not all of them, but the good ones are. So, well, if there aren’t any more questions, folks, well, if there are any more, let me answer them, otherwise, like I said earlier, in the beginning of our program, we’d like to keep these calls to an hour. Other than that, most of our questions get a little stale, and we’d be tired to talk too personal.


HAGENSTEIN: And I get tired. I get tired talking to all you folks. But it’s my pleasure to provide any answers to questions. I want to thank all of you for participating tonight, and thank the person who invited you to the program. If you have a chance, get back to that, let them know you attended the conference, and that, you know, you got your questions answered. If for some reason you were unable to get your question properly answered, or if you didn’t ask a question that you would have liked to, or remembered one that you didn’t ask, or just that you maybe even shy, that you didn’t want to ask that question that would embarrass you or make you feel uncomfortable by asking it, don’t hesitate. Get back to the person who invited you to the call, let them know you’d like to set up a one-on-one with someone from CCDN, maybe a little bit more personal phone call, we’d be happy to do that, so answer all your questions. But again as I mentioned earlier in our call, take the time to look at our website. Look at the frequently asked questions section. It really does tell the whole story of what we can and can’t do. Also look at the resource section, our education section. We have a lot of links to pages, some articles, and we’re gonna be expanding that section of the website very soon as well, so there’ll be more information out there.

ALICIA: Mmm-hmm.

HAGENSTEIN: Again the process works in this way. We have the three phases. During the process, while you’re going through this program, you’re in constant communication with our support team. They communicate primarily through email. We’re building a website database so you’ll have access to your account information in the future, should be in the next 30 to 60 days hopefully, so during the process you can check it anytime, any time of the night, wherever you are with the process in the database in the future. We’re also coming up with some other tools that’ll help you in situations for those of you who have clients who maybe have judgments against you, maybe a debt collector or someone has put a judgment against you and is trying to garnish wages or do something of that nature. We’re coming up with a post-judgment tool that should be available soon. It’ll help the folks with that kind of a circumstance. So unless there’s any more questions, I want to thank all of you for your participation tonight, your questions, your dialogue, and again my name is John Hagenstein, I’m the marketing director for CCDN. I want to wish you all a very happy evening. 44:58

9 Debt Resolution Audio Overview

PROFESSIONAL VOICE: Hello, and welcome to the audio overview for the debt resolution process. We are excited to offer you assistance in what we believe is the safest and most effective consumer debt relief process available today. This process has been used over the last seven years to help people offset thousands of accounts to the tune of millions of dollars. And just to make things clear, we work for you. We do not work for your creditors, your bank, or your credit card company. This is not debt consolidation, debt settlement, debt reduction, mortgage refinancing, bankruptcy, or some other payment plan that can drag on and on. Other processes can easily last up to seven to ten years. If you know that you need help dealing with your debt, we encourage you to consider this option. You’ll find it hard to discover anything else that helps you keep this much money in your pocket while easing the burden of your debt.

What we do is quite simple, yet very effective. We actually work with you and become a part of the picture through assignment of your debt to us. This doesn’t mean that the debt is no longer yours; it means that we’re involved with you, and our name is now on the dotted line along with yours. We then apply the principles of consumer protection law and basic contract law to make the agreement or contract with the creditor more favorable for you. Most types of unsecured debt can go into the process. Major credit cards, signature loans, store cards or gas cards, business or personal, and several types of student loans.

When you pay for your enrollment fee and submit your paperwork, you also provide us with enough money to make one more minimum payment on each account with the original creditor, plus an additional $43 per account with the original creditor as well. These are one-time payments. If you’re current on your payments, you just provide us with the minimum payment you would have sent to your creditor plus the $43. If a minimum payment is less than $50, you need to bump it up to 50 so we can show a substantial payment, but if you’re behind on payments and the creditor is asking for double or triple the normal minimum, you don’t have to provide the whole thing. Ask your agent for details. So for an example, if you have a balance of $10,000 on an account, your monthly minimum is probably going to be around $250 to $300, so you’d provide that amount plus an additional 43. Again, this is a one-time payment.

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We use the payments to offer a new contract on the account and use the $43 as consideration. These minimum payments will be sent to us at the same time that you fill out your paperwork and send the enrollment fee to get started. If an account is with a collection agency and no longer with the original creditor, you don’t need to provide the minimum payment or the $43 per account. We will still work on the account to offset the debt, but we use slightly different methods that don’t require those payments.

We focus mainly on the principles of contract law. Here’s how it happens. You’re probably aware that in the contract you have with your credit cards, there’s a clause that says they can basically change the terms and conditions whenever they want to, right? Well, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. What we do is become involved through a notice of assignment, with their acknowledgement, and change the terms and conditions so they’re better for us rather than being only good for the creditor.

When you’re filling out the paperwork to get started with us, get out your credit card statements as well. Let’s say you have one from XYZ bank. What you need to do is take out any ads but leave in the entire statement unmarked along with the return payment envelope. Slip that back into the original letter envelope they sent to you, then put the whole thing in a bigger envelope along with the other forms we require, and send it to us.

When we receive your statements along with your payment, we will deposit your check made out to us. We use one of our own checks made out to XYZ Bank for the minimum payments. When we send it to them, we also include an offer of new terms and conditions so they can agree to the new contract. We’ve done this for years with literally thousands of accounts. We have never had a national or regional bank reject the contract.

Here’s another way to understand this. I’m sure at one time or another, you’ve gotten a check in the mail, probably out of the blue, for 10, 20, $50, that on the back where you endorse it, there’s fine print that says, if you cash this check, then you’re agreeing to this or that, whatever their service is. This is basically the same idea, except we’re doing it to them instead of them doing it to us. Once they cash the check, they’ve accepted the consideration and are agreeing to the new terms and conditions. Those terms and conditions, that new contract are what help us resolve and/or offset the debt.

You’ll also fill out an official form that’s notarized and signed by both parties that says you’re assigning the debt to us, so you have something in your hand, but, the new contract is what actually assigns the debt to us, because it’s something that the creditor actually agreed to. The statements will start coming to us as well. The contract now says they are not allowed to charge any interest rate. It says that the minimum monthly payment is now $10 a month. It says that they are not allowed to charge any late fees, they’re not allowed to put any negatives on your credit report, and if they ever have put any negatives on your credit report, they have to take them off. So there is term after term that’s now in our favor rather than theirs.

The new contract also says that if they break any of the terms, they agree to a financial penalty of anywhere from 500 to $2,500 per occurrence. You know how right now if you send in a payment late to your credit card company, then they’ll charge you a late fee? You’re paying a financial penalty because you broke the terms of the contract. Now again, this is exactly the same thing, except they’re getting a taste of their own medicine, and we can do it because they agreed to the new contract.

The main goal of this procedure is to offset the debt, because even though they accept the new contract and perform on it, they’ll probably act as if they’re still under the old contract, and even though they accept the new contract by cashing the check, when the next statement comes out, it’s probably going to show that they’re asking for more than the $10 minimum payment, and they’ve charged a late fee, and they’re asking for more than 0% interest. According to the new contract, they just broke the new terms three times on that one statement, so we’re able to apply three penalty fees.

For the next several months, we’ll be able to use that $43 you provided to send them payments of 10 to $15 per month, and based on past experience, every time they send out a new statement, there will be likely three or four term violations on there, so those penalty fees are applied over and over. Please understand when we take on the account, you are simply paying us to act on the debt for you by assigning it to us. We will continue to make payments as long as necessary or there’s a balance to offset, and again, the credit card company has agreed to that, but they simply don’t follow the contract. When we take on the account, even though it may have a balance of $10,000, after four to six months, because they keep breaking the terms of the new contract, they’ll end up owing us several thousand dollars. We could go after them for that amount, so who knows, in the future we may, but for now we don’t. That isn’t the point.

The point is to get rid of the debt by offsetting that amount, and we can use the money they owe us as further leverage to retire the account. Realize that contract law boils down to the very basics. There are four parts to contract law: the offer, the terms, the acceptance, and the performance. We’ve made an offer of a new contract. The terms and conditions are spelled out right in front of them, and the acceptance is when they cash the check. From that point on, every time they send a statement to us and every time they accept a payment from us, they are showing performance on the new contract. We also show performance every time we send those minimum payments of 10 to $15 a month.

So now we have a contract that’s spelled out, that both parties have accepted, and the parties have been performing on it for months now. Go ask any judge or lawyer and almost any one will tell you it’s pretty cut-and-dried at that point. It’s a valid contract and it’s too late for either one of the parties to come back and say wait, I didn’t really want to have that term in there.

Now the way we used to do this was provide the contract with all the letters and forms, and the client would change their own terms and conditions and so forth, with our help and support. What we found was with about 5 to 10% of the accounts, the credit card company was bringing a lawsuit against the client. They didn’t really have a legal leg to stand on. It was pure intimidation, but even though we would walk someone through what to do, most people didn’t want to deal with fighting a lawsuit, even though they were in the right, and they could expect to win. That’s why we switched to handling everything for the client and taking on the debt with you.

Now, if the credit card company tries to use intimidating tactics and serve a lawsuit, we can normally prevent that from happening. On the rare occasions where a lawsuit happens, you actually have legal grounds for defense, and we can help you there also. The contract now shows that they are the ones that are in violation of the contract, not you. If they sue in that situation, the leverage is on your side, not theirs. The creditors should also realize this, so a lawsuit is simply not something you should have to deal with or fear being faced with.

You should probably allow six to eight months for the debt to be offset. If the account is with a collection agency, we use consumer protection law. We dispute the debt, which means they are then required to give proof that they are entitled to the money. They aren’t. They bought the right to collect on the debt, but that does not mean you have the legal obligation to pay them anything. You’ve never had a contract with the collection agency. They’ve never provided you with any goods or services, and they can’t show any consideration toward establishing a contract, so with a collection agency, the method is different. We aren’t actually taking on or assuming the debt, but the end result is typically the same. The debt goes away.

There are two things that you should be aware of. First, you’ll get collection calls. That’s just part of the process. Remember, we usually will send the first minimum payment intentionally late to get everything started. If collectors start calling, most people just ignore the calls because they have caller ID. But if you want to minimize the calls, pick up the phone and tell them I don’t handle financial matters over the phone, send it to me in writing, and then hang up on them even if they’re still talking.

We recommend you do not talk to the collectors. You don’t have to talk to them and there’s little good that could come from it. They’re just there to intimidate you, to scare you, and to try to trip you up and try to get you to say something they can try to use against you later, so we recommend that you do not talk to the collectors. Telling them that statement and sending them the form we provide usually does the trick. It’s unusual to still get many calls after that. Now if you do, log them and let us know. We can actually get the calls to stop if they continue.

When you get something in the mail about one of your accounts, whether it’s a statement from the creditor or a letter from a collector, just put it in a bigger envelope and send it to us immediately so we can address it. And again the address on the account’s switched over to us, and you generally won’t get much written communication after the first couple of months. Remember that even though we can offset the debt, that doesn’t mean the creditors don’t want your money, it just means they no longer have a legal right to the money.

You also may get calls when the bank sells the account to a collection agency down the road. Again, this is normal. Our process won’t stop accounts from going into collections. However, on the accounts that we get involved for a new contract, we can show that legally, there is no debt to collect. Just send the collection agency the same statement. I don’t handle financial matters over the phone, send it to me in writing, and hang up even if they’re still talking. They are required by law whenever they take an account to send a collection letter to you within ten days. When you get it, just forward it over to us and we contact them directly. Within a couple of weeks, you shouldn’t hear from them again. So again, your role is simple, but very important. Send us anything you get in the mail–statements, letters, anything–immediately.

Now the second thing is, expect negatives on your credit report. Now remember that putting negatives on your credit report is against the terms of the contract, but also remember that one of the main reasons we are successful in the first place is because they don’t follow the new contract. They will usually still act as if they are still under the original contract, and we let them do so until the penalties have offset the original debt. That means that they are incorrectly reporting that fees are racking up and you are behind on payments, when under the new contract, that is actually not the case.

So after you send us all your statements with your payment, go forward on your calendar about ten months and put an X there. When that day comes, pull a simple credit report on yourself from all three of the agencies and send them to us. From there, we can determine whether the accounts are offset, and apply the rest of the penalty fees to the creditor.

As for the negatives on your credit report, if you can show that something on your credit report is a mistake, it’s against the law for the credit reporting agencies to leave it there. It has to be removed. We can give you the documentation and instructions that you’ll need to show the credit bureau, or we may assist you or refer you to another company that can help you. So allow about ten months from when you get started for the debt to be offset, and you can begin to work on strengthening your credit.

That’s pretty much it. Thank you for taking the time to listen and explain your options for resolving your debt. We wish you good luck in whatever choices you make. We encourage you to get back to the agent that referred you to this conference call. They’ll be able to tell you the enrollment fee for your situation and answer any questions you have. Thank you. 13:47

10 Daley Radio Interview from same page as before, part 2 of the recording. “?” means the speaker’s identity is uncertain.

? Without further ado, we’ve got Brad, Brad Daley on the line.

DALEY: Hey guys. John, James,

? Welcome aboard, thanks for coming to the show. We appreciate it.

DALEY: Thank you.

? We wanted you to come on and talk a little bit about what you do. As you know, we speak about the credit card business, and what they’ve done to the public, and how people are struggling out there, and if you go ahead and tell us a little bit about what you do and how you got there.

DALEY: Sure. Well first, let me say thanks for having me on again, and Merry Christmas.

? Well thank you

? Aw, happy holidays to you too.

DALEY: Well, let me just say this. This is my part, to attack the debt collection industry, the banks, and I’m pretty good at it. What I do essentially is nothing different than what the banks do to all of us. I turn everything around and do it right back to them, everything from assignments to altering the terms, changing the terms, and then creating a situation where I join up in some cases, or in most cases just take over peoples’ debts. It allows me the ammunition that I need to go back after not only the banks, but the third party debt collection industry, which I was a part of for about ten years, and that’s what I do. Some people call me a professional troublemaker, it just kind of depends on what your perspective is.

? [laughs] Yeah. Very interesting. That’s one way to look at it, professional troublemaker, but the other way to look at it is that you’re added lifeboats for the victims of the Titanic.

DALEY: Exactly.

? I mean, people are waiting–

? You’re a lifeguard, too.

? –people are waiting for a way out. There is no way out of their credit card debt. If you’ve been frugal enough, if we can use those terms. But James, I don’t know if we’re really getting this across to people, Brad, and I want you to speak upon this, because a lot of people are real hesitant, because they’ve been told to honor their obligations, to fulfill their contracts, to do what they said they were going to do. What do you say to people if they’re considering discharging their credit card debt or any unsecured loan. In other words, you make the money, folks, you give them the opportunity to make a declaration that they’ve actually put money up, which they have not done, but what is it that you tell people, Brad, that feel somehow that they’re obligated. Once they’re late on a payment, the credit cards, all of a sudden, all of them from different banks, different lending institutions, if we can use that term, start declaring that you owe 30, 31%. What is the difference here? Is this a real contract, and are people liable for it?

DALEY: Well, the people that would tell everyone else that you should do this, you should honor your obligation, you should pay your debts, I would first say to them, check your sources. Probably the bank’s telling you that. It’s probably the people who, obviously, you follow the money, that’s where the source is going to be, but the bottom line is this. The credit card industry, banks, make the vast majority of their profits from people who can’t pay their balances every month. They don’t like those people. They like the people that struggle to make ends meet, barely can make that 2% payment each month, if it’s not four already, and hopefully, in some cases purposely late on that payment, which allows a default interest rate to kick in, which I’ve seen RBS, I’ve seen theirs as high as 54%, so generally–

? RBS? I’ve never heard of this. Back up. Oh my God.

DALEY: It’s the Royal Bank of Scotland, RBS in America right now. I’ve seen their default interest rate at like 54.8%. Just for being late.

? Oh my God, I’ve never ever heard anything like that. I’ve heard 32, is the highest I’ve heard. But that is unbelievable.

DALEY: Incredible.

? That is unbelievable, John, and that’s, oh my God.

DALEY: When you get in that kind of situation, there is no way you are going to pay this back at the rates that they’re wanting you to send in at your minimum payment amount. No way. If it did, if you made those minimum payments, you’d have to live well beyond a hundred to pay it back, depending on what age you were when you started, but that’s where all the profits are. Then of course the late fees, the overlimit fees, all those things that now, in Congress, they’re, these banks are being examined for and questioned for their business practices. And I’ll say this too, and this is probably one of the premises I live by, I do anything unless the law says I can’t do it, and in this country, everything is negotiable. So there is no law that prevents an individual from assigning or transferring a contract, and we’ll talk about that in just a second, but a debt, a contract, an obligation, because all contracts are assignable to a third party. That’s what I am. But that’s what happens in the credit card industry when the bank writes off this account. They assign it or sell it or transfer it to some third party debt collector, most of which are debt buyers, but some of which are attorneys. And then they use that instrument to give them the standing or legal standing as a real party of interest, to pursue that individual and keep tacking on interest and all the other fees to go after all these amounts, I guess, they’re enslaving people now, in my opinion. And that’s, you know, if you see what they’re doing, that’s all I do. I’m not eliminating anybody’s debt. Now if it ends up being that way, then so be it, but I want people to assign their debt to me, their obligation, their contract, and let’s talk about a contract for a minute. You know a contract is nothing more than an agreement that the law will enforce. It must contain three parts. There’s gotta be an offer, there’s gotta be some consideration, and there has to be an acceptance of those terms. Well, in a credit card situation, we don’t have any of those things. We’ve got kind of an offer. An offer is a very specific and itemized list of terms that with an immediate intent to be bound by those terms. In a credit card situation, all you have is, here’s a credit card, and here’s some of the terms, and oh by the way we reserve the right to change them any time we feel like it.

? That’s pretty much it right there.

DALEY: And as far as consideration, yeah, that’s pretty much it. There is no consideration because the bank is not out anything. You know, consideration is anything that would be a detriment to you if you lost it. You have people try to buy a house, you put up some earnest money. That’s consideration. In most cases it is money. But in a credit card situation there is no consideration. You know, the bank’s not out anything. They give you a credit card and they go, here’s some of the terms, we’re gonna service this account, oh by the way we reserve the right to change it any time we feel like it. So there really cannot be an acceptance of any of those terms because they’re indefinite to begin with. So we got all three parts of a contract missing or at best we’ve got a quasi contract then in place. So performance of the contract, which strengthens the whole agreement here, is nothing more than when you send in those servicing payments to the bank. The bank certainly doesn’t loan, get anything on loan from them. It’s merely servicing, you’re servicing your account is all you’re doing. You’re sending it in to them. So all I do is strengthen all of that. I make, first I take on assignment so that I can become a real party of interest. I’m not interfering with interstate commerce or a contract already in place, I now become part of it, if not, well, with the intention of taking over the whole contract, and I create a contract. I make an offer. I make some very specific terms that are obviously advantageous to me and the consumer, and then I support it with consideration, as much money as I can send it. It’s usually a little more than the minimum payment, and when they cash my check, and by the way, this goes to the dispute address or the general inquiry address, doesn’t go to the payment address, and when they cash that check, now we’ve got an acceptance, and then when they then change the address to mine and then accept my performance payments afterwards, I’ve got a real contract, and I’ve got something more strong, stronger than anything than any of these banks or debt collectors have ever come up with.

? Well, and, you know, to prove a contract, a binding contract here, you gotta have a validation of the debt, or an actual accounting of it, the verification of the claim against the person, a sworn affidavit or even just a signed invoice, and a copy of the contract binding both parties. Now what exists right now is unenforceable, you said, by law.

DALEY: Right

? An unenforceable unilateral contract with the bank. What the bank refers to as your contract with us is not a valid bilateral agreement since the four requirements, as you said, of the law for a binding contract were not met on the credit card application. And we’ll disclose that, right after this.

[bumper music]

? We are back, folks. This contract, you know, when you put your signature on it, this contract, what you’ve actually done is give the banks permission to loan you money, but they’re really not loaning your money. They’re loaning you credit. They have brought nothing to the table.

DALEY: That’s right.

? And what you have on this contract, you’re not being told that you’re creating the credit with your own signature. That comes under the heading of full disclosure, equal consideration, Brad, what you mentioned. They bring nothing to the table, hence, they’ve got nothing to lose, and lawful terms and conditions, they’re based upon the fraud. Now it also requires the signatures of the parties, and to go further down that rabbit hole, they are corporations, and corporations can’t enter into a contractual agreement with a private individual, okay. This is something that’s a little bit more far reaching, but there are a lot of people out there that understand that. They can’t prove anything. This is why they lose in court. Brad, what has been your rate of success?

DALEY: Well, I’ve been able to help all of them. Now people come to me with all sorts of issues. Obviously the people who are just beginning to experience debt collection, the sooner I can get involved with them, the higher or better success we can certainly enjoy. But a lot of people come to me because they’ve been through some sort of program, and there’s a lot of them out there. I would never talk bad about any of them, because I believe they were all at least intended initially to reach the same area that we’re all trying to head toward. You know, they’re looking for the gold at the end of the rainbow, looking for something, and you know, a lot of people have been through something and they are just knee-deep in collections when they come to me and I’ve enjoyed a lot of success. I’ve been able to stop a lot of garnishments and create some really messy situations for debt collection attorneys, especially with me being out of state and asserting, you know, a new contract not only gives them, but possibly their client, that really creates a mess for them. So I would say I can’t think of anybody who hasn’t been happy at some level at some of the success I could bring to them.

? Let me ask you this. At what point, Brad, is the latest they can turn over an alleged debt. I mean, when it’s at the point of an attorney, when they’re getting a letter from an attorney, is that too late, or can they still get on board with your services, or where do they stand at that point?

DALEY: Obviously, the earlier the better for me, personally, because that allows me to really get some penalties against whoever is the original creditor is, or even the third party debt collector, but I’ve been able to take stuff when they’ve come to me and they’ve got a garnishment going on and they just assign that to me. The whole assignment, notice of assignment, is a powerful tool. I’ve used it. It’s stronger than any power of attorney, because it makes me a real party of interest with respect to an account, and, y’know, I’ve seen people well beyond and I’ve been able to stop garnishment, do a lot of creative things, and even go after judges and law clerks, those type of officials, public officials, go after them criminally, as a real party of interest. So I haven’t seen it gotten in too late on anything yet.

? Okay, that’s what I wanted to bring up, because I’ve been taking calls from people and discussing for quite some time, and I want to let everybody know, Brad, that you now can take on international assignment, correct?

DALEY: That’s true, that’s true. It’s incredible. I got a lot of interest out of Canada for some reason.

? Yes, you do.

DALEY: And yeah, the whole, I did a lot of research on the international assignment, and we had a, there was a convention, I believe, and I cited it on my international debt assignment notice, and it is the International Convention on Contracts, and it basically mirrors some of the civil rights law that I espouse when it comes to our rights to make and enter into contracts, same type of thing. And the international courts have all accepted all of those claims, so it’s a–

? Now where, because we have listeners, we’ve gotten email regarding this show from as far away as Australia, Brazil, England, Canada. Now, international assignment, can you define that specifically, because I want to make sure they all understand that it may be possible for them too.

DALEY: Sure. They got a debt, they got a contractual issue, even if it’s a quasi contract like what we have on a credit card situation. They can easily assign that to me here in America to service, administer, do whatever I want with it, or just take over it altogether and let me do whatever I need to do with it. Any kind of debt.

? Mmm hmm. Now it’s not just credit cards. What other type of debt can you get discharged?

DALEY: You know, honestly, there’s no limit to it. I like to stick with credit cards, mainly because they’re unsecured for the most part, and I’ve got all I can handle when it comes to credit cards. I believe that’s the most destructive form of debt that we have, not only in our country but possibly the world.

? Ah, absolutely. [laughs]

DALEY: Mortgages and cars, those kind of things, I’ve been very active in the collection of those things, so I just don’t have room for those right now, but generally, anything’s possible

? Okay. Where do you, usually you said, you’re a professional troublemaker. I want to go back to that. How did you get to the point where you are now?

DALEY: Oh, let me tell you. You know, everybody–

? After the break. Hold onto that, Brad, You’re a busy man, I can hear the call waiting feature on your phone.

DALEY: I’m sorry about that.

? That’s okay. That’s okay. He’s much in demand now today, folks, and you can well imagine why.

[bumper music]

? Brad, let me ask you this. One thing, a lot of people when they call in will ask about these services, and I discuss with them in private about it, they want to know how long it takes, what are they gonna do about their credit report, is there gonna be a dip in that, cause from my perspective, that’s, if they’re gonna get out of a large amount of credit card debt, and you really want to live in a different way, you’ve gotta be cash-and-carry as much as possible. But a lot of people, how they want to live is how they want to live, so when at one point, when a person’s gone through this process, their credit report is back to where it should be. How long does that take, and do you do it or do they do it?

DALEY: I am not a credit repair organization. However, I always include that and do that for free, because part of the change in terms affects the credit report. So usually in about six months I want to see peoples’ credit reports to see what is actually being reported, and of course that allows me a whole other avenue to go after the credit bureaus, which I have a special bone to pick with them. But how long does it take, generally? Someone is current, they’re still getting statements from the bank, they’re starting to feel the heat, and they need to make a decision about doing something, and then they come on board, usually within two to three months. It depends on the billing cycle, obviously, when they get the statements, when I make offers to take over, and when we execute all the paperwork, but generally after the second month and usually no longer than three months, they don’t hear anything anymore, they’re not getting statements anymore, it’s all coming to me, their payments are being made by me then, and they’re out of the loop, really. Now I always tell people after about six months I wanna see what’s on their credit report, because usually at six months the, if there’s gonna be any negative reporting, it’s gonna happen about that time frame, and that allows me to hurry up and get involved on that, and go after the credit bureau.

? Got it. Got it.

DALEY: And it really depends, I gotta tell you, I used to laugh, when people would say, oh gosh, you got $100,000 in credit card debt, I sure would like to get out of this as easily, without as much pain as possible, oh by the way I want perfect credit. I used to laugh about that and say what do you need credit for if you’re out of debt.

? That’s right. [laughs]

DALEY: But so many people are, you know, gotta have good credit.

? They got that–that’s right, that’s right.. You know, that’s like a pacifier.

? That’s exactly right.

? Your problem has been your credit. You understand the credit game now. You understand how you’ve assigned a signature and given them permission to lend you credit, and people just can’t seem to really break that paradigm, that is, they’re locked in this debtor mindset of a prison, and James and I, we joke about this. It’s like people are–

JAMES: It’s true. It’s not a joke.

? People are in a locked cage, you open up the door, and their experience with the real outside world on the way things should be, it scares them, and they’re afraid to walk out of their unlocked cage. It is the best way to describe it because they have been so ingrained that you must protect your credit, you must, this has been the, this has been the Madison Avenue dream that they have handed you, that you can go out and you can get the big-screen TVs, and you can get these goods, and well, it’s not actually borrowing on time. You’re given credit, that’s all you’re given, it’s nothing, just credit, and then you’re allowed to pay it off, kind of like in installment payments but, I noticed something here, James and Brad, you’ve heard this term over holiday season after holiday season, the layaway plan. You’d walk into a store and you would pick out the item that you want, and they’d physically pick it up and take it in the back room and you would pay it off by week or however you would make it, settle the obligation there, if you will, and then you went and picked up your purchase, and then you wrapped it up and put it under the tree. Okay now, fine and dandy. But we have been taught that we can have everything that we want, not what we need, but everything that we want, and we can do it on kind of a time credit plan. Well folks, what people are doing right now, even my producer here, she’s gone out Christmas shopping, and the urging of us, we told her, only spend cash. That impulse to reach for that plastic, you know you don’t have the money, there’s nothing in your bank account, but you got that little card that gives you the green light to go out there and purchase, buy, buy, buy, buy, and this is what people do. But we’ve asked people to go through the exercise. Put the credit cards away. Don’t bring them out. Pay for things in cash. Number one, it does one thing. You’re actually reaching for your own money, and you’re laying it out.

DALEY: It’s like pulling teeth to do that.

? It is, Brad, and it’s the best therapy I’ve seen people do. It actually makes them think about the exchange of money for goods or services, you know, do I really need this? Can I be a better shopper for what I need or can I get a lower price? You know, I’ve seen everybody whipping out the old MasterCard here to finance next week’s groceries or to make the car payment or to pay bills or whatever, just to literally subsist to the very next week. I mean folks, inflation on food alone out there, there’s gonna be more people reaching for that plastic just to pay for groceries, but think of what you’re paying for. You’re paying for the privilege of doing one of the things necessary for life–eating–and you’re going to put a finance charge on that? [laughs] I mean, it’s insane.

DALEY: It is a great– Listen, I’ve been in more foreign countries than I can think and our country, through my military time. We as a country do not understand the concept of delayed gratification, and what is making it worse is, look at TV right now, Citibank, what do all their captions say on all their commercials, live richly. And how about all those commercials about boy, if you pay cash, you’re slowing down the whole train.

? That’s right.

DALEY: You know, they make jokes about people that actually use cash, and who’s behind that? The banks. They’re behind all of this stuff, and delaying gratification, that’s right, the American dream, hurry up, buy a house, get it now, don’t worry about paying for it. We’ll pay for it later. We’ll pay for it over time.

? And Brad, a lot of people have gotten into trouble because they were told that, oh, you know what, you can just take out a second mortgage. You know you can get that equity out of your home. You can take that vacation. You can buy that new car. You can buy the wintertime snowmobile playtoys. You can live richly, right now, don’t worry about it, take that money out of your house.

? Yeah, now, now, Brad, here’s another thing that’s come up with people that have called in that are ready to make a shift. Some people have called in and they’re at the point where, I know, MBNA cards, what they do at a certain point is, they really don’t want to take anybody to court, they take them into arbitration, and some individuals have called in that have arbitration awards against them, and they have at that point, my understanding is, they’re notified, they got a couple of letters, within 30 days a local attorney comes in and says well, we’re going to take that arbitration award down and try to force it in court. Now if somebody has an arbitration award against them, are they, can they, work with you.

DALEY: Yes. I’m very skilled in that area. I’m very familiar with all of that. In fact, if I can, I will try to represent them in the National Arbitration Forum. I’ve been, I’d say, fairly successful in not just getting an involuntary dismissal, but at least on assignment allowing me to move to vacate that award within 90 days of when it was issued. That’s your key, the 90 day window. Now I will tell you this. Across the country, courts everywhere are more and more reluctant of granting arbitration awards, I’m sorry, not granting them, but confirming them into judgments, and the reason is because the sentiment in the public is really growing. In fact, this year, back in July, Jeff Sessions, our senator from Alabama, introduced the Arbitration Fairness Act, which is going to eliminate what the National Arbitration Forum does against consumers, and in employment setting. So these guys, it’s all these guys end game.

? Yeah, I tell you, NAF, what they’ve done to people over the years, done with MBNA cards, Chase cards, and so forth, these guys, when they go through the NAF, they don’t read or follow any of their own rules, and they come down with arbitration awards like almost immediately.

DALEY: Yup, they sure do.

? It’s crazy.

DALEY: And they’ve been doing that to confuse the court. Most courts get an arbitration award, they don’t really know what to do with it, so they just take the attorney’s word, because the people don’t usually do anything–

? That’s right. That’s right.

DALEY: –and rubber stamp it and turn it into a judgment.

? That’s right. That’s right.

DALEY: Violation of due process and a whole bunch of other things.

? Right.

DALEY: Again we vacate, if it’s early enough, within that 90 days of when they got that award. That can be vacated in any court of competent jurisdiction. Me, as an assignee, that’s my court.

? Got it. Good.

DALEY: So those kind of things, certainly, I can handle.

? Yeah, cause I, over my time dealing with credit cards, the National Arbitration Forum, Wolpoff and Abramson, as you probably know, those guys have been steamrolling over people for years, years, years, and I’ve seen some of these arbitration awards, exactly like you said, that knocked over to a local attorney, they take them to court, and then there’s no followup and they try to get these judgments, that’s correct.

DALEY: Exactly, and Wolpoff & Abramson, if I’m right, is the managing company of the National Arbitration Forum.

? Of course. Nice. Yeah, right. I mentioned that, that they were in the same house together, to a lot of people over the years, and they didn’t seem to want to believe it, because, my account just went to Wolpoff & Abramson. Before I could even answer their original attorney letter, they’ve already sent it to the NAF, already. And then they send, you know the deal.

DALEY: Mmm hmm, mmm hmm, mmm hmm.

? So how did you get from where you are today, what were you doing before, and how did you make the shift?

DALEY: You know, I was a, I was a debt collector actually for ten years. As soon as I left the military, I actually, y’know, was a captain, medically discharged, all that stuff, went from making pretty good money to unemployment, so I lost my house, had my car stolen in the middle of the night, you know, all those things I went through, and I didn’t have any other alternative, so I filed bankruptcy way back in ’93, and you know, got a fresh start, that I thought, and shortly thereafter–

? How quick, Brad, by the way, after you did the bankruptcy were they sending you credit card offers?

DALEY: Oh, it was within six months I had credit cards. It was insane, and I was a debt collector. So that was funny. I didn’t have a lot of sympathy for people that I was harassing, because I’d already went through it, so you know, for ten years I did that, and I was really good at it.

? Well Brad, the credit card companies know, I mean, that the fix is in now, thanks to Orrin Hatch, and I think it was Graham out of Florida, that you can’t put your credit card into a bankruptcy, and it’s rather fascinating because when you look at the amount of debt that people have incurred, and they came in with a stopgap measure, and this was all under a realignment of banking practices, and this would be fair to the consumer and fair to the credit card company. The actuality was, they put the fix in so credit card companies know you can’t file bankruptcy.

? You’re right. This was before. They love it, cause they knew they couldn’t file bankruptcy for another seven years.

DALEY: That’s it, and I’ll tell you this. The new bankruptcy, first of all, I knew, how it was gonna shake out I wasn’t real sure, but I knew what it said. But here’s the reality. You know before, you could file Chapter 7 or Chapter 13. One’s a wage earner, one’s not. Well, if you don’t have anything, why file anyway. They can’t take anything you don’t have. If you’re gonna file a wage earner plan, generally what they, what the courts would do was take 30% of your unsecured balance and figure that into your three to five year repayment plan. Well now, with the new law, they take everything, 100%. The lowest I’ve ever seen is 80% I’ve seen in the last few years, but generally it’s 100% of all your unsecured debt, and your secured debt, and then figure a repayment plan, three to five years. So I mean, that is, and the banks love that, because they’re getting money on stuff they’ve written off and taken an insurance claim on, because when you file bankruptcy, they file a claim with FDIC and get that.

? Everybody listen to this. This is so important that you hear what Brad’s saying.

DALEY: They’re not only making the money from your, whatever servicing payments that you’ve made, but, y’know, then the tax writeoff, y’know, for a bad debt, and by the way they only give you a 1099 because they’d have to stop the debt, they can’t continue on, but then they’ll sell it or trade it for some amount of money, just some amount. If that is an attorney, they’ll get a percentage of that, and you know, if you file bankruptcy, well, that’s great, let’s file an FDIC claim for a writedown, and by the way, if it’s gonna be a wage earner plan, like most are now, we’re gonna get a monthly payment too, from the courts. I mean, my gosh, it’s the business to be in.

? Keep something else in mind, folks, that these people do not stop. You can attest to this, Brad, because you’ve been on the other side of that fence. The more time that they have to work on you and wear you down, harassing you, sending you letters of judgment, hiring attorneys that are actually third party debt collectors but they do it on their letterhead to make you think that you’re being sued. All of this wears on you, folks, so what are you going to do and how fast are you going to do it. I’m gonna get Brad’s response to that, when we get back.

[bumper music]

? Brad, I want to walk through this for people who are wanting to know, well, when I decide to do this, and you start the paperwork, how long is it realistically until this thing is settled, and keep in mind, folks, that it’s illegal for them to harass you, send you threatening letters, to make those phone calls, have those third party debt collectors out there, which they’ve actually bought the debt, or they’re trying to collect on the so-called debt for their percentage. Realistically, once people file the paperwork, Brad, how long till solution day?

DALEY: I’d say three months is the target date from the time I get it. They should really not receive any phone calls or any more statements from the banks ever again. If they are contacted, it may be, let’s say, six months to a year later, possibly by a third party debt buyer who just didn’t have my information, just had some old information. Those are easily dealt with. But generally, as far as they’re concerned, for all intents and purposes, within three months, they’re gonna see a drastic reduce of everything. I’m taking it away from them. I’m bringing it to Alabama, I’m getting involved, I’m getting in the middle of it, and certainly their credit report, if that’s an issue to them, at the six-month mark, I’m gonna want to see that so I can do whatever I need to, to correct that. I really gotta say this, I said this when I was a military guy before I was involved in anything that I’m doing now. Today is the first day of the rest of your life. What you do today, when you don’t have to, will determine how you’re going to be, or where you’re going to be tomorrow, when it’s too late to do anything about it. You know, all good things will come to an end. We’ve all heard that, so the bottom line is, if you, there is one trigger, one event, most people are away from being in financial calamity, and if you are already feeling the pinch of that 2% minimum credit card payment, now at 4%, if you’re already seeing that or your default interest rate has already kicked in, those are the early signs. You need to do something. That’s the bottom line. I don’t know what it is. Maybe you need to, I mean, I’ve got an idea if you ask me specifically, but unless you’re planning on leaving the country and going and living somewhere on a remote island for seven years and then coming back to what’s left, there’s not a whole lot of options out there that are feasible for most people.

JAMES: Okay, so everybody, you’ve listened to Brad Daley, you’ve listened to John. This is the second time we’ve had Brad on. I wanted to get some little issues that people have asked about in the past with certain things that they’ve called about. I want to thank Brad very, very much for your time, for coming on again today, much appreciate it.

DALEY: Thank you guys for allowing me just to come and speak my mind.

JAMES: I appreciate it, and Brad, it took us quite a few days to get you on the air. Folks, is that an indication of how busy Brad is? There you go.

DALEY: Sorry about that.

JAMES: Brad, no problem man, you’re doing it for the people out there, you’re getting them out of this debt mess, and you’re giving them hope and realignment of their financial situation for the days to come, and they’re going to need it. Brad Daley, thank you sir.

DALEY: Thank you sir.

[pleasantries, Merry Christmas, bumper music]


11 Mortgage Recovery by Seth Hoerth 2:46, posted 2009-01-28, 296 views

BORGAULT: My name is Richard Borgault, and I’m here with Seth Hoerth of Home Asset Disposition Management. We’re here to discuss pre-foreclosure services provided to lenders and homeowners, especially loan modification. Now Seth, tell me a little bit about Home Asset Disposition Management and loan modification.

HOERTH: Well, Rick, HOEM is actually an asset disposition company that works with the banks. We’re also helping them work and make financial sense out of these defaulting mortgages. While Asset Disposition is one way, the best way is really through loan modification. The foreclosure process has just become so expensive. Loan modification is usually the best financial solution for both parties.

BORGAULT: All right, let’s start off with the basics. What is a loan modification, Seth?

HOERTH: Okay, a loan modification, first of all, is not a refinance. It’s an agreement with the current lender to modify the existing loan. This will reduce the payment to meet the borrower’s current financial situation. You don’t need good credit, nor will it affect your current score. Additionally, you can own more than the current value of the home and still qualify.

BORGAULT: Just why would a bank do that?

HOERTH: Rick, let’s face it. It’s financially beneficial for both parties. First of all, the borrower stays in the home. They maintain and are responsible for the home. The lender will again receive monthly income on the loan, and the negative value of the home will not be assumed by the lender. The loan modification is really a win-win solution.

BORGAULT: Can I just call the bank myself?

HOERTH: Certainly. Most people often do try it themselves. It’s usually too technical and people get frustrated with the lender’s customer service. Their guidelines usually won’t provide the financial depth to build the modification case necessary. Since HOEM is a private outsource to lenders, we recommend using the services of a reputable law firm to negotiate. They will know how to build a financially beneficial package. When we are contacted by a client, we recommend Mortgage Recovery. Mortgage Recovery is a successful loan modification company.

BORGAULT: So if I’m a homeowner and I contact Mortgage Recovery, what services will they offer me?

HOERTH: Rick, since Mortgage Recovery is actually the Law Offices of Michael Duff, you’ll be getting the services of a law firm. They offer a free consultation and will talk to the bank on your behalf and assess your situation. This will determine whether or not they will consider modifying your loan. They will take your case only if they feel they can successfully negotiate a loan modification. If they are unable to modify your loan, they offer a money back guarantee. Check out .

BORGAULT: Seth, thank you for your financial insight on loan modifications.

[title: For information on the legal aspects of loan modifications please view our video with Michael Duff. 1 (888) 567-6634]

[title: For information on the RESPA & Truth in Lending violations of loan modifications check out our video with John Bellomo. 1 (888) 567-6634]

Thanks for watching.

12 Mortgage Recovery by Michael Duff Esq.

BOURGAULT: Hello, I’m Richard Bourgault [title: RICHARD BOURGAULT], and I’m here with Michael Duff, with The Law Offices of Michael Duff and Mortgage Recovery. First of all, Michael, what is the situation with all the agents and mortgage brokers doing loan modifications, and why would I hire an attorney?

DUFF: That’s a great question. You see, [title: MICHAEL DUFF, THE LAW OFFICES OF MICHAEL DUFF & MORTGAGE RECPVERY [sic]] loan modification companies are popping up all over the place these days. For the most part, they’re the old mortgage brokers scrambling to make a profit. The unfortunate part is that it seems most have focused on getting the sales in the door without putting enough emphasis on compliance, infrastructure, and the back-end support needed to get the modifications done. Hence, many of the homeowners who have hired mortgage brokers have not received a successful loan modification and have lost their money. They talk to an attorney differently than they would to a broker. Mistakes are made by an unscrupulous lender. And banks want to clean up the past violations. This gives us the upper hand in negotiations. When you hire a law firm like ours, you’re getting the professional care you deserve and you need.

BOURGAULT: Let me ask you, Michael, have you been successful at stopping the foreclosure process and preventing a house from being sold at public auction?

DUFF: Absolutely. We are extremely effective in stopping foreclosures. We will demand the banks stop the foreclosure and postpone a pending auction until we can deliver a comprehensive underwriting, financial analysis, and modification package equitable to all.

BOURGAULT: So how are you so successful at performing a loan modification?

DUFF: First of all, our people are experienced. This process requires people who know how to get the modification done. Second, we make financial sense to the lender and we will continue to escalate the matter as high up the management chain as necessary to get the job done.

BOURGAULT: Attorneys can be expensive, Michael. Can the average homeowner afford your services?

DUFF: Yes, of course. We offer free consultation, where we will talk to the bank on your behalf and address your situation. This will determine whether or not we can modify your loan. We will take your case only if we feel we can successfully negotiate a loan modification on your behalf. If we’re unable to modify your loan, we offer a money-back guarantee. Check our website out at [screenshot of mortgagerecovery homepage]

BOURGAULT: Michael, I’d like to thank you for your insight on the legal aspects of loan modifications.

[title: For information on the financial aspects of loan modifications please view our video with Seth Hoerth 1 (888) 567-6634]

BOURGAULT VOICEOVER: For information on the financial aspects of loan modifications please view our video with Seth Hoerth.

[title: For information on the RESPA & Truth in Lending violations loan modifications check out our video with Jon Bellomo. 1 (888) 567-6634]

For information on the RESPA & Truth in Lending Act violations with respect to loan modifications check out our video with Jon Bellomo. Thanks for watching.

13 (audio quality is poor)

Welcome to this recorded overview of Quest International. The purpose of this call is to outline the benefits of membership, and the benefits you will see with Quest are substantial. If you’re a typical North American, with an income that doesn’t cover your bills, with debt that increases yearly and too much taxes. With or without a mortgage, there’s little or no this portfolio information for you. If you have assets you want to protect while accessing better investments, this information is also for you. Statistics are that 70% of Americans will be broke and below the poverty line by the age of retirement, and that most will have to work until 65 or even later before they can retire. Not very attractive for most people. The fact is that it doesn’t have to be that way.

Quest International is an organization dedicated to helping people develop a practical financial plan that will lead to complete financial freedom by implementing strategies. These are, strategy number 1, learn to keep your money. Eliminate or dramatically reduce all debts, such as loans, credit cards, lines of credit, and also dramatically reduce personal income tax as well as any business tax liability. Now the position is obvious. Debt interest payments and taxes are the two biggest drains on our finances. By getting rid of these, or by reducing them as much as possible, we automatically increase our cash flow. Let’s look at an example. If you have a mortgage and you’re able to reduce your payments by even 1%, you will have additional cash flow immediately. But you might need it to pay off other debts much faster, which would again increase cash flow. Reduce your payments by more than 1%, your cash flow will be that much better, possibly saving tens of thousands of dollars. So if you refinance your house for a lower rate, you could possibly pull out existing equity, which could be invested for a healthy return, thereby increasing your assets and leading you toward something called financial independence, which I will define as doing what you want, when you want, with whom you want, without having to worry about money. Doing what you want, when you want, with whom you want, and never having to worry about money or yourself. Would you like to be in that position. I suspect your answer is yes.

Strategy number 2, protecting the assets you have. You may have built a physical fence around your house. Have you built legal protection, so that no one can take it away from you? Legal protection so if you are liened or levied in lawsuits. What if you got sued, or the IRS decided to put a lien on your house? These things happen all the time. Besides, there are significant tax advantages to protecting your assets, not only for yourself but for your heirs. If you intend to leave your property to your family, learn to protect your assets. An additional benefit is, and a very significant one, is structuring your personal and/or business affairs in the international arena, where you will enjoy the types of benefits that the wealthy consider essential to maintaining their wealth. And folks, this is not rocket science. Anyone can learn these things.

And this leads naturally to strategy number 3, grow your assets. Do this by getting your money to work for you, by learning to invest, whether it’s real estate or futures, stocks, bonds, options, whatever. It is essential to get your money working for you, no matter how small the amount to begin with. As a member of Quest International, you will have access to the experts who can find you. Now let’s do a quick review of the substantial benefits of being a Quest member.

Number one, you learn to keep more of your money by reducing debt interest payments and taxes. Number two, build legal protection, basically liens, levies, and lawsuits. Number three, learn to invest. Now for some, this might seem somewhat overwhelming. These are things that perhaps you haven’t given much thought to, might seem foreign to you. Don’t worry, relax, reduce debt level, all is well.

Quest International is made up of people exactly like you. Blue collar, white collar, we have over 7,000 members. Because of our size, we have attracted the attention of large companies who are more than happy to have access to our 7,000-plus membership, and in return, will give our members exceptional rates and discounts on various products and services. These products, like paying for lap seizures [huh?] on mortgages help our members eliminate debt, and debt interest payments. Other companies help our members reduce, or even eliminate, personal income tax. We work with companies that can eliminate credit card debt without bankruptcy. Others will show you how to protect your assets, both now and into the future, and ideal investments in a protected structure.

Now understand that the focus of Quest International is education. In fact, there are three levels we call Q1, Q2, and Q3. Each level gets you closer to financial independence. Knowledge and understanding of what you’re actually doing is why. However, it’s not dry university stuff. This is critical information combined with answers from the experts to your questions along the way. This is information you will definitely want to pass along to your family. It is not about courses where you take steps. The Q1 information is represented in a package called Q1 AD, with as many hours of recorded audio presentation, like different areas of finances, law, research, and local help, because my friend Dr. Mellon says, what good is wealth without help. The Q1 level also includes an extraordinary online research website with a wealth of information and valuable links, which is updated regularly.

The Q2 level of education is where you meet the people, the experts who record all the CDs, and others who will sit down with you, one on one, to help create a blueprint to financial freedom. These live events take place in sunny climes, like Mexico and Cabo San Lucas, and will absolutely take you to a new level of knowledge and practical application. By the end of the first day, you will realize you have joined a select group of people with access to some of the best opportunities and experts available anywhere. You’ll meet people who one year ago were broke and desperate with no financial knowledge who have found an organization that is helping them achieve real financial freedom. You’ll meet investors who attend regularly to participate in some of the best investments available anywhere, people from all walks of life who have taken responsibility for their financial lives and are doing something about it that will benefit their families for generations to come.

The Q3 level of education is where members who have taken advantage of the many opportunities at the Q1 and Q2 level now get to enjoy the benefits of an exclusive investments club. Those companies bringing the best opportunities realize that Q3 members are those who do not want to stop learning and educating themselves about how things really work. These members have earned special access to additional opportunities both in the financial and health arenas. This level of financial freedom is pretty much assured. At this level, you know you’ve graduated.

Now I’m going to make a very strong statement here. What I believe, based on personal experience, with this sophisticated kind of education through membership for the last three and a half years. The average person can save at least some thousands of dollars with their Quest membership. At least. Whether you reduce the payments on your mortgage, or you eliminate credit card debts and loans, reduce your taxes, or benefit from high yield investments, you will be better off than before. And this dog ends [huh?] when you look at the benefits of membership locally.

So to finish off this presentation, let me point our message to you. Learn to keep your money, protect your money, and have your money work for you. This is what is on offer with membership in Quest International. Regardless of the person, you need to find out more about how our exclusive access you will have to these important products and services that will help you, that will help put you on your own road to financial independence. If they can do it, you can do it, and that’s it. Thanks for listening.

About Steve Rhode

Steve Rhode is the Get Out of Debt Guy and has been helping good people with bad debt problems since 1994. You can learn more about Steve, here.

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